Fuel Altered Tune
Discussion
If we're talking NFAA rules then, for nitro
limited magneto output
limited blower overdrives
limited fuel pump delivery
2 speed lenco rather than staged cannon type clutch found in fuellers
budget? twice as much as you plan on spending
full rules are on www.nfaa.info then 'regulations'
limited magneto output
limited blower overdrives
limited fuel pump delivery
2 speed lenco rather than staged cannon type clutch found in fuellers
budget? twice as much as you plan on spending
full rules are on www.nfaa.info then 'regulations'
Hi All,
To quote Gary Burgin - 'if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it' and, 'anything that comes out of the States has to be modified to fit' - isn't that the truth.....
We did formulate the regs to keep the cost down as much as possible, consistent with safety, even more important now that most are in the sixes, with high terminals, they are all making good power.
Also remember - 'there are no pockets in shrouds'.
To quote Gary Burgin - 'if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it' and, 'anything that comes out of the States has to be modified to fit' - isn't that the truth.....
We did formulate the regs to keep the cost down as much as possible, consistent with safety, even more important now that most are in the sixes, with high terminals, they are all making good power.
Also remember - 'there are no pockets in shrouds'.
Depends what kind of fuel altered you mean!
Blown alky is quite affordable, it's all about being careful where you spend money. Luckily Methanol is a little easier on parts and equipment!
As for monetry spending apart from entry fees and consumables like fuel and oil, all we've bought this year for the season is a set of piston rings for the current engine.
Blown alky is quite affordable, it's all about being careful where you spend money. Luckily Methanol is a little easier on parts and equipment!
As for monetry spending apart from entry fees and consumables like fuel and oil, all we've bought this year for the season is a set of piston rings for the current engine.
NuthinFancy said:
Depends what kind of fuel altered you mean!
Blown alky is quite affordable, it's all about being careful where you spend money. Luckily Methanol is a little easier on parts and equipment!
As for monetry spending apart from entry fees and consumables like fuel and oil, all we've bought this year for the season is a set of piston rings for the current engine.
Agree with Joe alky is not cheap but more affordable than nitro, we ran the 6.90 at 200mph and have no damage at all, we just spend mainly on entry, oil, plugs and fuel.Blown alky is quite affordable, it's all about being careful where you spend money. Luckily Methanol is a little easier on parts and equipment!
As for monetry spending apart from entry fees and consumables like fuel and oil, all we've bought this year for the season is a set of piston rings for the current engine.
Only way we could ever go nitro is with a sponsor (read big sponsor with lots of ££ )
I will be happy enough when I have got this underpowered Chevy running 6.6's beating all the nitro cars :-)
Edited by BennettRacing on Tuesday 25th September 11:35
Edited by BennettRacing on Tuesday 25th September 11:35
BB-Q said:
Just thought I'd ask.
Is a Fuel Altered set up the same as a funny car or rail or are there fundamental differences? Also, what is the minimum budget you could run one on and be competitive?
I'm just being interested/nosy, by the way.
As for the original question, as has been said we run to a set of rules to curb costs and keep it all roughly the same. Is a Fuel Altered set up the same as a funny car or rail or are there fundamental differences? Also, what is the minimum budget you could run one on and be competitive?
I'm just being interested/nosy, by the way.
As set up goes we are very different compared to todays funny cars etc, we can still only run a Roots blower, no Whipples or screw blowers, but on our car, clutch is same as alky funny car, as is the gearbox, but we run a big block chevy which pound for pound is under powered when compared to a Hemi, which is what all funny cars/rails use.
Furyous said:
What sort of percentage jump in costs would you be talking between Alky and Nitro ?
Where does the cost increase come from ? Is it primarily fuel or is the service cost that much higher ?
F
Good question, hard to answer as it will depend on the experience of the team and tuner as to how many parts get hurt. I would say to be a front runner in NFAA on alky or nitro build costs are about the same IE the car and motor, but running costs I would guess 10 to 15 times the cost of alky........Where does the cost increase come from ? Is it primarily fuel or is the service cost that much higher ?
F
Cost is partly fuel but mostly on parts
Edited by BennettRacing on Tuesday 25th September 12:30
Barry B said:
Tip o' the hat though to all that run these high horse high dollar combinations out their arse pocket, alcohol or nitro !
Thanks Barry, appreciate it!We haven't had even a secondary sponsor for over six years, we ran the TMD with no funding from anyone from about 2001 onwards until we sold it. Now we run the altered out of our pockets like the TMD.
In a way it's good because you don't have to answer to anyone and your not a lapdog to anyone, but financial constraints are a pain sometimes.
Still, doing what we have done with what we have is very creditable. As I will always say there is no price on experience, that which my Dad, Martyn and Craig Hannis and Lawrence all have plenty of!
"Running costs I would guess 10 to 15 times the cost of alky........"
Would definatly dissagree. There really is not much you can compare between an Alky car and a Fuel car. As Peter pointed out its not the fuel cost that's the main difference but rather all the other parts that get used up when the tuner get's his math wrong. In a modern day funny car with the tune-up in the center of the window, so to speak, the biggest chunk of money goes into the clutch program, 2nd is the nitro, 3rd are the tires and down to 20th place are pistons, rings, valves, springs bearings, etc. Certainly not like it used to be
Alky cars, from what I know spend a lot on engine components. Much more for a blower, heads, manifold, valves, valve springs, pistons and definatly the transmission.
The FA's, now I am sure someone will put me straight on this, have created a great class but with a set of rules that are not cost effective. The biggest problem I see is the fuel FA's have a limited fuel pump size, which will just keep eating up parts & money. In the old days we had small fuel pumps, but we also had small blowers, poor flowing cylinder heads and manifolds, low lift camshafts etc, so basically it all worked somewhat together and was resonably easy to set up. In those days a good 1100 Enderle would produce 17 gall/min. The last single "small" pump I had was a 27 gal. blade stye Waterman which lasted about 4 runs. Hello 5 seconds but also hello 6 melted pistons and a couple of torched heads. Now, I have an 84 gall pump, have never even pinched a ring in 4 years and the spark plugs are not even fuzed at 300 mph. There are much better ways of making the cars "affordable" without limiting the fuel pump size. In my oppinion that is.
Ducking now.
BJ
Would definatly dissagree. There really is not much you can compare between an Alky car and a Fuel car. As Peter pointed out its not the fuel cost that's the main difference but rather all the other parts that get used up when the tuner get's his math wrong. In a modern day funny car with the tune-up in the center of the window, so to speak, the biggest chunk of money goes into the clutch program, 2nd is the nitro, 3rd are the tires and down to 20th place are pistons, rings, valves, springs bearings, etc. Certainly not like it used to be
Alky cars, from what I know spend a lot on engine components. Much more for a blower, heads, manifold, valves, valve springs, pistons and definatly the transmission.
The FA's, now I am sure someone will put me straight on this, have created a great class but with a set of rules that are not cost effective. The biggest problem I see is the fuel FA's have a limited fuel pump size, which will just keep eating up parts & money. In the old days we had small fuel pumps, but we also had small blowers, poor flowing cylinder heads and manifolds, low lift camshafts etc, so basically it all worked somewhat together and was resonably easy to set up. In those days a good 1100 Enderle would produce 17 gall/min. The last single "small" pump I had was a 27 gal. blade stye Waterman which lasted about 4 runs. Hello 5 seconds but also hello 6 melted pistons and a couple of torched heads. Now, I have an 84 gall pump, have never even pinched a ring in 4 years and the spark plugs are not even fuzed at 300 mph. There are much better ways of making the cars "affordable" without limiting the fuel pump size. In my oppinion that is.
Ducking now.
BJ
Hi Bob
good to hear from you and on an associated (sort of) thought, we now see nitro clouds from fuel cars which we never saw 15 or so years ago so I would guess fuel input has increased quite dramatically. I remember some one, again I think Dale Armstrong doing a piece on fuel volumn in the late eighties where to demonstrate amounts of fuel used they ran current pumps at racing speed and filled a VERY large perspex box with liquid in 5 secs, what is the current fuel flow rate of a 2007 car?
thanks Steve Y
good to hear from you and on an associated (sort of) thought, we now see nitro clouds from fuel cars which we never saw 15 or so years ago so I would guess fuel input has increased quite dramatically. I remember some one, again I think Dale Armstrong doing a piece on fuel volumn in the late eighties where to demonstrate amounts of fuel used they ran current pumps at racing speed and filled a VERY large perspex box with liquid in 5 secs, what is the current fuel flow rate of a 2007 car?
thanks Steve Y
Furyous said:
About 84 gallons per hour I would expect.
Well the pump does 84 gallons per minute at a reference RPM, actual consumption will depend on pump speed, throttle position and fuel timers / returns - I'm sure Bob will be able to give some approximate figures on rate of consumption under full load during a run.
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