Discussion
, it`ll be never won`t it..
CM I voted once. 81.2%.
I don't think playing silly buggers with cookies and IP spoofing will do anything other than undermine the credibility of the result, and also confirm the DoT's view that we are all just people who just have to break the rules (manipulators in their jargon - check the research at www.roads.dtlr.gov.uk/roadsafety/research11/sc00.htm).
Play fair, vote, but vote once only please.
Phil
I don't think playing silly buggers with cookies and IP spoofing will do anything other than undermine the credibility of the result, and also confirm the DoT's view that we are all just people who just have to break the rules (manipulators in their jargon - check the research at www.roads.dtlr.gov.uk/roadsafety/research11/sc00.htm).
Play fair, vote, but vote once only please.
Phil
Phil, what you say is very true in a fair society.
However, this vote will not change the views of the hardcore minority who have decided to annihilate the motorist. They have declared war, and their intentions are to BAN 3 times as many motorists this year, as they did last year.
If we were dealing with "nice" people, who would be reasonable - then the point you made is very relevant. Do you really think that they are going to take this seriously? -> come on, they will publish the results, and Whitehall will ignore them.
Sorry to sound disillusioned, but it's how I feel. Stitched up with no decent public transport, a crap road system, and the only way they can prop is all up is with shifty little cameras???????
And another thing, you can bet that a "pro" camera person will be boosting the YES vote.
C
However, this vote will not change the views of the hardcore minority who have decided to annihilate the motorist. They have declared war, and their intentions are to BAN 3 times as many motorists this year, as they did last year.
If we were dealing with "nice" people, who would be reasonable - then the point you made is very relevant. Do you really think that they are going to take this seriously? -> come on, they will publish the results, and Whitehall will ignore them.
Sorry to sound disillusioned, but it's how I feel. Stitched up with no decent public transport, a crap road system, and the only way they can prop is all up is with shifty little cameras???????
And another thing, you can bet that a "pro" camera person will be boosting the YES vote.
C
Carl
You didn't read that research did you!
I'll summarise for you. There are 4 types of drivers: Conformers, Deterred, Manipulators and Defiers.
Conformers "presented a picture of generally law-abiding, cautious drivers who approved of cameras" - so no they wouldn't be cheating methinks.
Manipulators ""were the most calculating and sophisticated in their reactions to cameras. They approved of them less than other types but were familiar with them, they thought they knew where they were, how they operated and how to drive past them without getting caught. In our surveys they tended to be the youngest and had the second highest offending and speeding scores and the highest accident rate". Kind of like people who fiddle on-line surveys.
I agree with you, I don't expect the vote to make any difference, but I do think that publicly condoning manipulation of the results is playing into the hands of the legislators!
Phil
You didn't read that research did you!
I'll summarise for you. There are 4 types of drivers: Conformers, Deterred, Manipulators and Defiers.
Conformers "presented a picture of generally law-abiding, cautious drivers who approved of cameras" - so no they wouldn't be cheating methinks.
Manipulators ""were the most calculating and sophisticated in their reactions to cameras. They approved of them less than other types but were familiar with them, they thought they knew where they were, how they operated and how to drive past them without getting caught. In our surveys they tended to be the youngest and had the second highest offending and speeding scores and the highest accident rate". Kind of like people who fiddle on-line surveys.
I agree with you, I don't expect the vote to make any difference, but I do think that publicly condoning manipulation of the results is playing into the hands of the legislators!
Phil
I did say that I agreed with you !! - admitedly in an ideal world.
BTW, I have read that Gov. paper, and not sure what to make of it. Think it is pychobabble propaganda.
Who is publically condoning anything? lots of people do REALLY bad stuff, yet go unpunished. Some otherwise law abiding folk speed a little, and are turned into criminals.
So why do you think fighting back against the system is so bad?
Just 'cos some of the guys here have the wit & inclination to try, doesn't make it wrong.
And who are you calling a manipulator? if manipulator means someone who doesn't like being caught for a victimless crime, then maybe it also means "sensible person" ??????
C
(don't use the internet to do opinion polls!! not MY fault that the business layer is so bloody "stateless" these days that it relies on cookies. Ooops sorry. Geek speak slipped out again)
BTW, I have read that Gov. paper, and not sure what to make of it. Think it is pychobabble propaganda.
Who is publically condoning anything? lots of people do REALLY bad stuff, yet go unpunished. Some otherwise law abiding folk speed a little, and are turned into criminals.
So why do you think fighting back against the system is so bad?
Just 'cos some of the guys here have the wit & inclination to try, doesn't make it wrong.
And who are you calling a manipulator? if manipulator means someone who doesn't like being caught for a victimless crime, then maybe it also means "sensible person" ??????
C
(don't use the internet to do opinion polls!! not MY fault that the business layer is so bloody "stateless" these days that it relies on cookies. Ooops sorry. Geek speak slipped out again)
It weren't me mate! Did I say that?
Psychobabble it may be, and no, for some strange reason there is no classification of "Victim" in there, but thats the pseudo scientific bollocks that is used as "evidence" by those making up the rules of the game.
I'm all for fighting back, its just that lobbing hand grenades with the pins still in doesn't usually win any fights!
Phil
Edited by philshort on Friday 18th January 14:31
Psychobabble it may be, and no, for some strange reason there is no classification of "Victim" in there, but thats the pseudo scientific bollocks that is used as "evidence" by those making up the rules of the game.
I'm all for fighting back, its just that lobbing hand grenades with the pins still in doesn't usually win any fights!
Phil
Edited by philshort on Friday 18th January 14:31
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff