Friday 18th January 2002

Limits for Learners

Motorway ban for new drivers - do the Government understand anything about road safety?

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[McNab]

The Whitehall spook is obviously unaware of the fact that Ferrari do not build people carriers.

99.9% of new drivers are either:

1. Extremely cautious on motorways until they are thoroughly used to them, or

2. Proud enough of themselves to want avoid an accident at all costs, or

3. Scared witless by the thought of what Dad or Mum will say when they get home with a crumpled car, or

4. Scared even more witless by the thought of what their friends might say, or

5. Sensible enough to want to stay alive, or

6. Unlikely to have a Ferrari at their disposal.

What a ludicrous suggestion - the newly qualified driver should be properly taught and properly tested, and only given a 'pass' when the examiner is satisfied with their AAA level:

Aptitude, Ability, and Attitude.

[howardo]

Firstly - the same as everyone else - I would love to see "a Ferrari, packed with passengers".

In NSW Australia they have had the P - plate system for some years - this is a red "P" on a white background, displayed for a year. It does give warning of an inexperienced driver and is, in my view a good idea. However, now we also have a green "P" on a white background, which I believe is issued after they have completed their first year on red "P". Confused - damn right.

There is no substitute for training which includes high speed, skid pan and defensive driving components. The cost of taking the licence would probably have to increase to cover the cost of the expanded course - but it would be nice to see government implement a workable and adequate test which ensured ALL new drivers had covered these items.

Although upside down the Australian State governments still have no new perspective on driver training

[JMGS4]

Just for info.... All mainland European driving tests and courses include motorway driving!!! Why not GB? This would obviate any more useless government ?work? on this!!!! or is that too simplistic for this pinko nanny state?????
PS, yes "P" plates for the first 2 years and a limit on horsepower to gain experience.........NO limit on driving areas i.e. m-ways.......

Edited by JMGS4 on Friday 18th January 07:36

Edited by JMGS4 on Friday 18th January 07:59

[kevinday]

In Hungary you are not even allowed onto the roads until you have passed the first four stages of the test, 1 - Highway Code theory, 2 - First Aid, 3 - Mechanical Knowledge (how to change a wheel, check fluid levels etc.) and 4 - Driving skills such as parking and maneuvering. The fifth and final stage is to learn to drive on the road, unfortunately this does not specifically include motorways or bad conditions.

[dan]

From the sounds of it,despite the fact we have one of the best safety records, we are the worst trained drivers in the civilised world!!!

When will this poxy government learn we need to train new drivers, not scare them sh*tless with crappy slogans and traffic calming.

[M@H]

quote:
Just for info.... All mainland European driving tests and courses include motorway driving!!! Why not GB? This would obviate any more useless government ?work? on this!!!! or is that too simplistic for this pinko nanny state?????

Whilst fundamentally a good idea, sometimes it isn't practical. I grew up in Cornwall and learnt to drive there... unfortunately the closest motorway is the M5 the other side of Exeter in Devon.. I'll wager my driving instructer would have loved the journey up there and back for motorway training seeing as they all charge by the hour

[mr_tony]

Surely the whole point of a driving test is so that a teenager can pass their test in the morning and take that ferrari mpv PACKED with passengers onto a motorway and drive safely and responsibly. That is the whole point of te test surely.

If they're legislating to avoid this then surely all this demonstrates is that the government has no confidence in the effectiveness of the current driving test.

(bet auto distress will have a spy shot of the new 'elemento portante della gente
' ferrari tomorrow ....)

[JMGS4]

M@H AAARRR but horrrsess aaand caaaarts aaaarn't allowed on moootoorways is they, my luvver?
Sorry bad Bristol accent!

Edited by JMGS4 on Friday 18th January 09:01

[MEMSDesign]

quote:

Although upside down the Australian State governments still have no new perspective on driver training

[mr_tony]

I think this will actually put off a lot of learners from getting motorway experience altogether as they will have to pay _after_ they have qualified.

In my experience learning to drive in rural Devon, many of my mates learned to drive in a local small town as they thought this would be 'easier' than learning to drive in Plymouth!! Most said that they would go there once they felt 'more confident'

10 years later, some of these people will still not drive in Plymouth as they 'dont need to'... In this situation we have just created a driving underclass of people without the skills to cope on many of this country's roads...

[phil hill]

Seem to remember "Bottom gear" magazine ran a feature on driving tests around europe some time ago. If you live on the Isle of Silly you can take your UK test there, where there are no traffic lights, no roundabouts, no dual carrageway and only one major juncion, a cross-roads. They don't even have their own tester, he has to be flown from the main land.

In response to the question "How much does it cost to get your drivers licence ?" the Greek examiner's reply of "Depends how badly you failed the test." wasn't what they expected.

And finally, a friend of mine came to UK from Norway as a nanny and was driving on her Norweigen licence. As she became a resident of UK, she decided to take her UK test and get a UK licence. Now, Norweigen test was quite comprehensive, written paper followed by driving proficency and skid control/snow driving. Then after six months you had to re-take the driving proficency to prove no bad habits had crept in.

So she drives to the test centre, slaps on the L-plates, takes the test, which she failed for some reason, removes the L-plates, drives home and re-books her test. Bizare !!

[Nick M (nmilton)]

Don't they have some sort of limit in Italy where people are limited to a certain horse-power or power to weight ratio ?? Hence the badging of cars like Fiats as a 45 / 55 or whatever.

Seems like a sensible plan to me. However, it shouldn't be in place of drastically improved driver training and much stricter tests. If we cut down on the number of people passing the test then I bet there'd be a corresponding decrease in road accidents among younger drivers because the ones that did get through would be more aware of their driving.

I'd also advocate a system whereby if you got stopped by the police within 12 months of passing your test and were found guilty then they'd get an immediate ban of, say, 7 days as a reminder that driving is a privilage, not a right.

[M@H]

quote:
M@H AAARRR but horrrsess aaand caaaarts aaaarn't allowed on moootoorways is they, my luvver?
Sorry bad Bristol accent!

Edited by JMGS4 on Friday 18th January 09:01

Cheeky Bugger

[JoePhandango]

Brilliant !! force all the inexperienced drivers who want to travel long distances (as they have every shaggin' right to) to use A roads instead of motorways. The last time I drove on the A4 I was on it for less than 10 miles before I got back on the motorway for fear of me life. Speed does not equal danger !!! Catchy slogans, soundbites and all that kinda PC Blairy hand wringing false sincerety does not equal a democratic government !!! It's so cringingly obvoius that the Blairites are pandering to the old fart electorate who'd like to see all drivers under the age of 60 driving anything other than beige Allegros horsewhipped.

[Jason F]

Call me picky but there are more dual carriageway A roads round here than Motorways. So, same speed, but can`t drive on one ?? hmm....

That is utter rubbish, but I do think that limiting power ( to a degree, lets face it, Jenson Button would be a bit p***ed off to have to drive a 1.0 Fiesta to wrk ) is a reasonably good idea. Insurance companies also do this to a degree, but just means that I have paid a heck of a lot of cash to ins cos in my time.

As for P plates, in my experience it just means that cars pull in front of you more when you have P plates on...


Edited by Jason F on Friday 18th January 10:34

[mcecm]

i had a female friend whohad recently passed her test and was driving at night for the first time. She may have known the theory of dipped lights but didnt know how to put it into practice. Hence she was confused when every car she passed flashed their lights at her. The test itself must be made more stringent so that better drivers are produced. This should include motorways but this isn't always practicle. Night driving and things like over taking should be added.

CM

[JMGS4]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

M@H AAARRR but horrrsess aaand caaaarts aaaarn't allowed on moootoorways is they, my luvver?
Sorry bad Bristol accent!

Edited by JMGS4 on Friday 18th January 09:01

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Cheeky Bugger

aaarr that Oi be!!!

[nonegreen]

The problem is bigger than just tests and regulations. The values we have in UK are skewed. We celebrate incompetance. How often do we see celebs and other assorted media types laughing about their inumeracy. In UK the most importants skill is to be able to talk shite effectively. Real skills like the ability to drive well are considered unimportant. Thats why Elton John gets paid 70 quid every time they play his music on radio 2 and the local joiner gets paid sod all every time you open the door.

As environmentalist propaganda is now part of the education system isn't it time all kids leaving school also had a driving licence and a thorough understanding of road use in all conditions, especially adverse ones?

If we are going to adopt an evolutionary aproach to the current driving test. In my opinion we may as well abandon it altogether and just let people drive because it is almost totally irrelavent to the road conditions today and evolving it will never allow the test to catch up.

There is no element of the test which deals with typical hazards and mistakes made on the road. It would be so simple to introduce a dozen life saving tips to new drivers yet because we refuse to make professional tuition mandatory we cannot make any progress. A revolution in driving skills training is required.

[Jasper Gilder]

I understand that Whitehall is supposed to be full of the 'brightest and the best' - if it is the Department of Transport must be seen as the home for the dead and the dying.

Clearly training is the right thing to do, and the insurance industry is already doing an excellent job of keeping young people out of high performance cars. ( You could get 4 passengers in a Ferrari 400i)

What are the statistics on the percentage of motorway accidents involving young drivers compared to the percentage of accidents invloving young drivers not on motorways? Does anyone know?

How much do young drivers use motorways anyway - usually they drive short distances and from my recollection, can't afford the fuel.

If the DOT wants an initiative lets target careless and thoughtless driving by both the young, the old and those who sit in the middle lane at 50 mph with their nose pressed up against the windscreen, clutching the steering wheel for dear life!

(PS I wrote off a Ford Anglia 1200 at age 19 - was that too racy a car for a young driver - 55 BHP Whoah!!!)

[CarZee]

quote:(PS I wrote off a Ford Anglia 1200 at age 19 - was that too racy a car for a young driver - 55 BHP Whoah!!!)

55bph from an anglia 1200 ??? Surely not..