Best rust converter
Discussion
I need to buy some rust converter to treat the arches on my Jag XJ8. I have used KU-Rust before but you are supposed to paint over that pretty rapidly. I am looking for something to treat the rust now and then be able to paint at my leisure. There is plenty of solid metal at the moment and I want it to stay that way over the winter.
bilt hamber do some great products for rust
http://www.bilthamber.com/hydrate80.html or http://www.bilthamber.com/electrox.html
http://www.bilthamber.com/hydrate80.html or http://www.bilthamber.com/electrox.html
The best way to get rid of rust completely is to convert it from Iron Oxide directly back into iron, by using electrolysis. Use a solution of washing soda and water as electrolyte. Stick a steel electrode in a plastic vessel, with the electrolyte. Stick your rusty part into the vessel. Connect a battery charger to the electrode and your rusty part. Ensure that the negative end of the battery charger is connected to the part you want to remove the rust from (important).
Switch on the power and watch the rust dissapear.
If you have any rust that actually goes through the sheet, you'll be left wit a hole.
The electrolyte will look a mess, but it's harmless enough to pour down a drain, in smallish quantities. Perhaps you might want to filter it through a rag, to prevent your drains clogging up, and follow through with plenty of fresh water.
I don't know how you apply it just to an arch, but that's the inventive bit.
Switch on the power and watch the rust dissapear.
If you have any rust that actually goes through the sheet, you'll be left wit a hole.
The electrolyte will look a mess, but it's harmless enough to pour down a drain, in smallish quantities. Perhaps you might want to filter it through a rag, to prevent your drains clogging up, and follow through with plenty of fresh water.
I don't know how you apply it just to an arch, but that's the inventive bit.
Edited by dilbert on Sunday 16th November 18:32
plasticpig said:
I need to buy some rust converter to treat the arches on my Jag XJ8. I have used KU-Rust before but you are supposed to paint over that pretty rapidly. I am looking for something to treat the rust now and then be able to paint at my leisure. There is plenty of solid metal at the moment and I want it to stay that way over the winter.
Just been reading this..http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.p...
Balmoral Green said:
plasticpig said:
to treat the arches on my Jag.
dilbert said:
Stick your rusty part into the vessel.
That's some sized tub.
If you ignore the zinc plating, that's all the dip style body resto places do, as far as I am aware. The thing id that they have the space for a massive car sized vessel. I suppose it'd be nice to have but probably wouldn't get too much use.
OTOH, it may be that the OP can devise some way to treat it in situ. I suppose the only thing to bear in mind though is that ifyou do get it rust free and then use rust preventative filler. It's a more difficult job for the body resto people to get rid of it, if an when you do the whole thing.
Cut and replace, has to be the best way. (IMO)
Edited by dilbert on Sunday 16th November 19:27
Thanks for the replies. Hydrate 80 looks like the best bet. I dont have the facilities to start stripping down the car in the winter or for taking panels off and its a daily driver. I will have a go at doing a proper job in warmer weather. This is just to ensure it dosent get any worse through the winter.
Ginge R said:
Dilbert,
Can you say why your method is 'best'? What criteria are you using? I ask, because it seems a lot more complicated than simply using a gelled type removal product which seems to achieve the same end result, ie; no rust.
Cheers.
It is going to be a lot more complicated, but gel rust converters work only on the corrosion they touch. Using an electrolyte bath to convert the rust uses the electrical conductivity of the base panel to ensure that all the rust is reduced back to good steel. So, yes, more complicated, but also gets all the rust, which the gels rarely do.Can you say why your method is 'best'? What criteria are you using? I ask, because it seems a lot more complicated than simply using a gelled type removal product which seems to achieve the same end result, ie; no rust.
Cheers.
Even immersing the panel in a bath of gel wouldn't necessarily get contact between the gel and rust inside blisters and bubbles, or under paint. But electrolysis guarantees that any oxidation in contact with the metal electrode (the good panel) is converted back into good steel, and any rust in contact with that good steel is then converted, and so on until the whole thing has had the oxygen reduced out of it.
Swings and roundabouts...
Tol
Cheers Anatol. Agreed 100% about getting access to all the rust - prep is everything - those rust blisters HAVE to go! The way I look at it, is this. If I addressing rust in depth, then the whole lot comes off and I'm just left with bare metal, and rust.. no paint. Then, I'd treat with a damned good primer and suitable waxes.
Thanks for your reply.
Even immersing the panel in a bath of gel wouldn't necessarily get contact between the gel and rust inside blisters and bubbles, or under paint. But electrolysis guarantees that any oxidation in contact with the metal electrode (the good panel) is converted back into good steel, and any rust in contact with that good steel is then converted, and so on until the whole thing has had the oxygen reduced out of it.
Swings and roundabouts...
Tol
Thanks for your reply.
Anatol said:
Ginge R said:
Dilbert,
Can you say why your method is 'best'? What criteria are you using? I ask, because it seems a lot more complicated than simply using a gelled type removal product which seems to achieve the same end result, ie; no rust.
Cheers.
It is going to be a lot more complicated, but gel rust converters work only on the corrosion they touch. Using an electrolyte bath to convert the rust uses the electrical conductivity of the base panel to ensure that all the rust is reduced back to good steel. So, yes, more complicated, but also gets all the rust, which the gels rarely do.Can you say why your method is 'best'? What criteria are you using? I ask, because it seems a lot more complicated than simply using a gelled type removal product which seems to achieve the same end result, ie; no rust.
Cheers.
Even immersing the panel in a bath of gel wouldn't necessarily get contact between the gel and rust inside blisters and bubbles, or under paint. But electrolysis guarantees that any oxidation in contact with the metal electrode (the good panel) is converted back into good steel, and any rust in contact with that good steel is then converted, and so on until the whole thing has had the oxygen reduced out of it.
Swings and roundabouts...
Tol
This thread is really helpful since my car was up on the ramp today and I noticed some of the underseal had come off the nearside sill and there is now an inch squared of rust.
Do I peel back some more of the underseal and use Hydrate 80 in the surrounding areas to the rust patch in case it has spread? Or just do the patch?
Do I peel back some more of the underseal and use Hydrate 80 in the surrounding areas to the rust patch in case it has spread? Or just do the patch?
Scrap back until you find rust free metal.
Wire brush etc as much as you can
Rust killer of some sort (Bilt&hammer or Dintrol)
Zinc rich primer x2 coats (Bilt&hammer or Davids Zinc182 or Zenga)
Paint x2 coats (hammerite is cheap and quick.. but not the best which would be 2 pack polyurethane)
Underseal with black stuff containing anti-rust coating
.. and inspect next Sept.. may have to do some again.
Wire brush etc as much as you can
Rust killer of some sort (Bilt&hammer or Dintrol)
Zinc rich primer x2 coats (Bilt&hammer or Davids Zinc182 or Zenga)
Paint x2 coats (hammerite is cheap and quick.. but not the best which would be 2 pack polyurethane)
Underseal with black stuff containing anti-rust coating
.. and inspect next Sept.. may have to do some again.
Edited by mgrays on Thursday 27th November 18:48
Working from experience of running rusty daily drivers the rust preventing solutions don't work as well as you imagine they will.
The best approach is to angle grind the rot down to shiny metal, fill and/or bridge filler (if holes are there) to build back up. Then paint. If your sending the car in for paint in spring anyway then a good coat of hammerite will protect it although the bodyshop will hate you! If it's going to continue like this just repairing as necessary get some primer, top coat and lacquer if needed and paint it. If you do this repair properly and get all the rust out you should get a good few years from it.
The best approach is to angle grind the rot down to shiny metal, fill and/or bridge filler (if holes are there) to build back up. Then paint. If your sending the car in for paint in spring anyway then a good coat of hammerite will protect it although the bodyshop will hate you! If it's going to continue like this just repairing as necessary get some primer, top coat and lacquer if needed and paint it. If you do this repair properly and get all the rust out you should get a good few years from it.
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