Smart traffic lights rigged to trap drivers - UK Approved

Smart traffic lights rigged to trap drivers - UK Approved

Author
Discussion

mr.ed

Original Poster:

180 posts

147 months

Saturday 31st January 2009
quotequote all
Nice story found here

http://tinyurl.com/ageqr7

It was posted on BBC but link is down.

Another story is here

http://tinyurl.com/afc8ad

...Stefano Arrighetti, 45, an engineering graduate from Genoa, created the “T-Redspeed” system, a configuration of three cameras designed to assess the three-dimensional placement of vehicles passing a red light and store their number plates on a connected computer system.

But now it is alleged that the systems were fixed – with the connivance of their inventor – so that instead of staying on amber for the regulation five or six seconds, the lights changed to red in half that time...

It appears the same system, at

http://tinyurl.com/dzqbu2

is "UK Home Office approved".

Hedders

23,129 posts

194 months

Saturday 31st January 2009
quotequote all
"The fraud was uncovered by Roberto Franzini, police chief!!! of Lerici, on the Ligurian coast. In February 2007, he noticed the abnormal number of fines being issued for jumping red lights.

Franzini said: “Safety controls cannot be transformed into a form of taxation.”

I can't see that happening here frown

Jasandjules

63,278 posts

176 months

Saturday 31st January 2009
quotequote all
Hedders said:
"The fraud was uncovered by Roberto Franzini, police chief!!! of Lerici, on the Ligurian coast. In February 2007, he noticed the abnormal number of fines being issued for jumping red lights.

Franzini said: “Safety controls cannot be transformed into a form of taxation.”

I can't see that happening here frown
Well, I think we can see the light system being put into place, but not any Police Chief stating what Franzini said, more like the opposite view.....

It's the same system as reducing speed limits and putting up scameras..

flemke

22,155 posts

184 months

Saturday 31st January 2009
quotequote all
This scam has been going on in the States for several years now.
A google of "red light cameras yellow phase shorter" yields 103,000 results.

In the States, traffic law is usually determined by the local authority. This means that there are many thousands of separate potential customers for the makers of abusive law enforcement devices.

The way the scam worked, the device maker would go to the local authority and pitch for it to approve the use of these devices at some of its traffic lights (remember that, in the States, traffic lights are vastly more common than they are in the UK). The pitch was based on safety - of course. The manufacturer would offer to install the equipment FOC to the LA, on the basis that the LA and the manufacturer would split any penalty income therefrom. That is to say, it was a freebie to the LA.

After getting the LA to agree to the offer, the manufacturer would go on to suggest that perhaps the LA's yellow phases should be re-examined, in case they were too long for modern cars with their short braking distances...
These abuses got so bad that in at least one state, at the state-wide legislative level, the use of red light cameras was comprehensively banned.

pitmansboots

1,372 posts

134 months

Saturday 31st January 2009
quotequote all
mr.ed said:
Nice story found here

http://tinyurl.com/ageqr7

It was posted on BBC but link is down.

Another story is here

http://tinyurl.com/afc8ad

...Stefano Arrighetti, 45, an engineering graduate from Genoa, created the “T-Redspeed” system, a configuration of three cameras designed to assess the three-dimensional placement of vehicles passing a red light and store their number plates on a connected computer system.

But now it is alleged that the systems were fixed – with the connivance of their inventor – so that instead of staying on amber for the regulation five or six seconds, the lights changed to red in half that time...

It appears the same system, at

http://tinyurl.com/dzqbu2

is "UK Home Office approved".
Dear mr.ed et al
You will find that the T-Redspeed is not UK Approved at all, nor has approval for that system been sought.

The redspeed International Traffic Light Camera is approved but is not the same system and has no connection to the T-Redspeed as far as I am aware.

Hedders

23,129 posts

194 months

Saturday 31st January 2009
quotequote all
pitmansboots said:
The redspeed International Traffic Light Camera is approved but is not the same system and has no connection to the T-Redspeed as far as I am aware.
Why would you think the two products are different?


tvrgit

8,424 posts

199 months

Sunday 1st February 2009
quotequote all
The duration of the amber at traffic lights in the UK is fixed by a Satatutory Instrument approved by parliament. No roads authority can use a different amber duration - there is no Type Approval for that, and no procedure to apply for any variation to the statutory amber period.

So "fixing" the lights to maximise prosecutions, as referred to in that article for another country, would, in this country, render those light illegal - all traffic lights in the UK are only Type Approved for that statutory amber time. In any case, it is not an "operator-set" variable timing (like green times, for example, are).

Brett928S2

1,504 posts

162 months

Sunday 1st February 2009
quotequote all
tvrgit said:
The duration of the amber at traffic lights in the UK is fixed by a Satatutory Instrument approved by parliament. No roads authority can use a different amber duration - there is no Type Approval for that, and no procedure to apply for any variation to the statutory amber period.

So "fixing" the lights to maximise prosecutions, as referred to in that article for another country, would, in this country, render those light illegal - all traffic lights in the UK are only Type Approved for that statutory amber time. In any case, it is not an "operator-set" variable timing (like green times, for example, are).
Hi smile

I didn't know that amber was a set time....

I have a set of lights outside my computer shop...I am going out on Monday to measure them....lol

What time should I expect and I assume its in both directions (3 way junction) ???

All the best Brett smile

Mill Wheel

6,148 posts

143 months

Sunday 1st February 2009
quotequote all
Hedders said:
pitmansboots said:
The redspeed International Traffic Light Camera is approved but is not the same system and has no connection to the T-Redspeed as far as I am aware.
Why would you think the two products are different?
Because!


Redspeed involved in dodgy business practices - who'd have thought it! Well aside from the dodgy calibration certificates with UKAS ISO 9001 Quality Assurance marks illegally displayed!

tvrgit

8,424 posts

199 months

Sunday 1st February 2009
quotequote all
Brett928S2 said:
tvrgit said:
The duration of the amber at traffic lights in the UK is fixed by a Satatutory Instrument approved by parliament. No roads authority can use a different amber duration - there is no Type Approval for that, and no procedure to apply for any variation to the statutory amber period.

So "fixing" the lights to maximise prosecutions, as referred to in that article for another country, would, in this country, render those light illegal - all traffic lights in the UK are only Type Approved for that statutory amber time. In any case, it is not an "operator-set" variable timing (like green times, for example, are).
Hi smile

I didn't know that amber was a set time....

I have a set of lights outside my computer shop...I am going out on Monday to measure them....lol

What time should I expect and I assume its in both directions (3 way junction) ???

All the best Brett smile
Amber alone for traffic stopping = 3 seconds
Red and amber for traffic starting = 2 seconds

So the time there from one green going off, to the other coming on, would be 5 seconds. You are allowed to overlap the ambe and red/amber by 1 second, so the absolute minimum intergreen would be 4 seconds.

You can also put an all-red between the two periods, as long as you need, to extend that intergreen. So the intergreen is variable, but the amber periods aren't. There is a formula in the design manual, based on "conflict distances" between stopping and starting traffic, to work that all out.

pitmansboots

1,372 posts

134 months

Sunday 1st February 2009
quotequote all
Hedders said:
pitmansboots said:
The redspeed International Traffic Light Camera is approved but is not the same system and has no connection to the T-Redspeed as far as I am aware.
Why would you think the two products are different?
Quite simply because they are not the same product or produced by the same company. Naive analysis would conclude they are but why let that stand in the way of the formation of another legend?

Hedders

23,129 posts

194 months

Sunday 1st February 2009
quotequote all
There are two companies producing 'Redspeed' traffic light camera's but the companies are not related and the products are totally different?

I am not surprised that conclusions are being jumped to!

flemke

22,155 posts

184 months

Sunday 1st February 2009
quotequote all
pitmansboots said:
Hedders said:
pitmansboots said:
The redspeed International Traffic Light Camera is approved but is not the same system and has no connection to the T-Redspeed as far as I am aware.
Why would you think the two products are different?
Quite simply because they are not the same product or produced by the same company. Naive analysis would conclude they are but why let that stand in the way of the formation of another legend?
http://www.kria.biz/PDF/T_REDSPEED_EN.pdf

http://www.redspeed-int.com/index.php?option=com_c...

marlinmunro

3,026 posts

152 months

Sunday 1st February 2009
quotequote all
We have had those in Sheffield for ages, the roundabouts under the M1 (meadow hell) will catch the unwary, as I know to my peril rotate

TVR 3X

1,233 posts

214 months

Sunday 1st February 2009
quotequote all
tvrgit said:
Amber alone for traffic stopping = 3 seconds
Red and amber for traffic starting = 2 seconds

So the time there from one green going off, to the other coming on, would be 5 seconds. You are allowed to overlap the ambe and red/amber by 1 second, so the absolute minimum intergreen would be 4 seconds.

You can also put an all-red between the two periods, as long as you need, to extend that intergreen. So the intergreen is variable, but the amber periods aren't. There is a formula in the design manual, based on "conflict distances" between stopping and starting traffic, to work that all out.
Does this mean that the reaction times are deemed to be the same for traffic lights in 30 mph, 40 mph and even above zones?

Russ

tvrgit

8,424 posts

199 months

Sunday 1st February 2009
quotequote all
TVR 3X said:
tvrgit said:
Amber alone for traffic stopping = 3 seconds
Red and amber for traffic starting = 2 seconds

So the time there from one green going off, to the other coming on, would be 5 seconds. You are allowed to overlap the ambe and red/amber by 1 second, so the absolute minimum intergreen would be 4 seconds.

You can also put an all-red between the two periods, as long as you need, to extend that intergreen. So the intergreen is variable, but the amber periods aren't. There is a formula in the design manual, based on "conflict distances" between stopping and starting traffic, to work that all out.
Does this mean that the reaction times are deemed to be the same for traffic lights in 30 mph, 40 mph and even above zones?

Russ
No, the all red clearance time after the amber will vary, and might be longer if speeds are higher. You can also add speed detection equipment so that if someting arrives as the signals change, but might be going too fast to stop, the all red is extended by a couple of seconds to let him get out of the way safely.

But the amber time itself is always the same.