Writing a bad reference

[sploosh]

Just got a reference request for an ex-employee.

He was a real pain in the arse, wasn't very good at his job, didn't get on with the rest of the team, said he'd done stuff that he hadn't and cost me reputation and money.

The organisation I work for is quite PC. Although I wanted to sack him I had to go through a capability procedure which dragged on for months. In the end he left before this was completed.

I know he will request to see the reference from me (and I think he can under freedom of information, right?) and he is the sort that would try to take action against me if he thought he could.... but equally I don't want his new employer coming after me for not declaring something to them that I should.

Is there any legal requirement to provide a reference, if so what do I need to disclose?

Any suggestions on bland wordings that get the message across without putting me in a compromising position?

Ta

[ShadownINja]

Dear Mrs Smith,

I can confirm that he worked from January 2006 to March 2009 in the role of Accounts Executive for ABC Corporation Ltd.

Yours sincerely,

Mr A Sploosh.





Sums up very subtly. Normally, you'd give a glowing reference.




Or you could do a Brittas Empire and give an amazingly glowing reference so that the company offers him the position and he doesn't return to haunt you.

[sploosh]

Pretty much as I've drafted

Am I obliged to say he was under a capability procedure?

[ShadownINja]

That's going into more legal stuff than I know.

[interloper]

I would get some proper legal advice, you need to tread carefully. Due to various regulations a good old fashioned, honest reference could get you into very hot water.

[siscar]

There is no legal requirement to provide a reference. In a circumstance like this it is often best not to do so. There's a small chance of a claim of victimisation but they'd have to prove that references were normally routinely given and that you'd not done so to victimise them, that not doing so had harmed their career, etc. etc. Not sure such a claim has ever succeeded.

IMHO it's better not to give a reference than to provide one in these circumstances. But if you do one make sure it is objective and accurate.

[Mr Heathen]

What he said ^. You'd be much safer just to refuse to give him one (if you'll pardon the expression). You are under no legal obligation to do so & if you don't there's no legal way for him to come back at you.

If you feel you MUST write a reference, you can make negative comments about the useless employee, as long as the reference has a good faith basis for the comments. So, a former employer can tell a prospective employer that the useless employee had problems meeting quotas/deadlines, or had attendance problems, or anything similar, IF YOU HAVE DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE FACTS. (Past performance reviews or other employment records for eg.)

Stay well away from giving opinions or making remarks about his/her personality etc.

HTH

[Mr Heathen]

sploosh said:

Pretty much as I've drafted

Am I obliged to say he was under a capability procedure?

I'm not sure whether you are actually obliged to say (I don't think so but you might want to take advice on that) but as long as the procedure is documented within the company records you should be free to put it in the reference as it is a simple statement of fact.

[mas99]

If you expect difficulty with him then I would be careful.

As he left before the procedure was complete then he could, I presume, kick up all sorts of a fuss about nothing being prooved or ehastever.

[spikeyhead]

ShadownINja said:

Dear Mrs Smith,

I can confirm that he worked from January 2006 to March 2009 in the role of Accounts Executive for ABC Corporation Ltd.

Yours sincerely,

Mr A Sploosh.

Change the word "worked" to "was employed" and anyone with more than three braincells will get the message.

[V8mate]

Does the reference request contain specific questions?

[sploosh]

V8mate said:

Does the reference request contain specific questions?

It was a questionnaire type reference. He'd have scored poor across the board.

I've just done a letter pretty much like the one above.

Sad thing is, this chap really had the potential to do well and I tried hard to support him.

[Soovy]

sploosh said:

V8mate said:

Does the reference request contain specific questions?

It was a questionnaire type reference. He'd have scored poor across the board.

I've just done a letter pretty much like the one above.

Sad thing is, this chap really had the potential to do well and I tried hard to support him.

Correct answer. Name, dates he was employed. That's it.

[AJS-]

There is no legal requirement to give a reference nor for any reference you do give to include any information about how he performed there. It is however illegal, and IMO bad form as well, to give a bad reference. Say that you can confirm the dates he was employed but do not wish to give any reference beyond that, and this sends by far the strongest message.

[E36GUY]

AJS- said:

There is no legal requirement to give a reference nor for any reference you do give to include any information about how he performed there. It is however illegal, and IMO bad form as well, to give a bad reference. Say that you can confirm the dates he was employed but do not wish to give any reference beyond that, and this sends by far the strongest message.

Absolutely. Do not whatever you do give a bad reference no matter how much you might want to. In referencing, it is best not to give any personal opinions lest they bite you in th 4r5e later on.

As has been suggested above, just state the facts. If you want to make the point word it something like,


Dear x

Further to your reference request for Mr A, we are not prepared to provide a reference in this case however, we confirm that Mr A worked at ABC Ltd from Date to Date.

Sincerely

[V8mate]

E36GUY said:

AJS- said:

There is no legal requirement to give a reference nor for any reference you do give to include any information about how he performed there. It is however illegal, and IMO bad form as well, to give a bad reference. Say that you can confirm the dates he was employed but do not wish to give any reference beyond that, and this sends by far the strongest message.

Absolutely. Do not whatever you do give a bad reference no matter how much you might want to. In referencing, it is best not to give any personal opinions lest they bite you in th 4r5e later on.

As has been suggested above, just state the facts. If you want to make the point word it something like,


Dear x

Further to your reference request for Mr A, we are not prepared to provide a reference in this case however, we confirm that Mr A worked at ABC Ltd from Date to Date.

Sincerely

I think that goes too far because it raises the question 'why?'.

Given that they sent a questionnaire, I'd just write



..... Further to your request for a reference for Mr X, I can confirm that he was employed by ABC Ltd from... to....

[Soovy]

V8mate said:

E36GUY said:

AJS- said:

There is no legal requirement to give a reference nor for any reference you do give to include any information about how he performed there. It is however illegal, and IMO bad form as well, to give a bad reference. Say that you can confirm the dates he was employed but do not wish to give any reference beyond that, and this sends by far the strongest message.

Absolutely. Do not whatever you do give a bad reference no matter how much you might want to. In referencing, it is best not to give any personal opinions lest they bite you in th 4r5e later on.

As has been suggested above, just state the facts. If you want to make the point word it something like,


Dear x

Further to your reference request for Mr A, we are not prepared to provide a reference in this case however, we confirm that Mr A worked at ABC Ltd from Date to Date.

Sincerely

I think that goes too far because it raises the question 'why?'.

Given that they sent a questionnaire, I'd just write



..... Further to your request for a reference for Mr X, I can confirm that he was employed by ABC Ltd from... to....

At the risk of repeating myself.



Dear xxxxx

I can confirm that xxxx was employed at xxxxxx between the dates of xxxxxx and xxxxxxx.


Yours etc....

[sploosh]

Soovy said:

V8mate said:

E36GUY said:

AJS- said:

There is no legal requirement to give a reference nor for any reference you do give to include any information about how he performed there. It is however illegal, and IMO bad form as well, to give a bad reference. Say that you can confirm the dates he was employed but do not wish to give any reference beyond that, and this sends by far the strongest message.

Absolutely. Do not whatever you do give a bad reference no matter how much you might want to. In referencing, it is best not to give any personal opinions lest they bite you in th 4r5e later on.

As has been suggested above, just state the facts. If you want to make the point word it something like,


Dear x

Further to your reference request for Mr A, we are not prepared to provide a reference in this case however, we confirm that Mr A worked at ABC Ltd from Date to Date.

Sincerely

I think that goes too far because it raises the question 'why?'.

Given that they sent a questionnaire, I'd just write



..... Further to your request for a reference for Mr X, I can confirm that he was employed by ABC Ltd from... to....

At the risk of repeating myself.



Dear xxxxx

I can confirm that xxxx was employed at xxxxxx between the dates of xxxxxx and xxxxxxx.


Yours etc....

That's the letter that's gone - stuck to the facts, no opinion. Wouldn't be surprised to get a phone call. I'll do the same if they call..... actually I'll probably fend the call off to HR who know exactly what is going on.

Found out today he's doubled his salary in the new job!

[GSP]

You can also legally put that you would not re-employ.

I'm suprised he even put you down as a reference if it was that bad.

[siscar]

AJS- said:

It is however illegal, and IMO bad form as well, to give a bad reference.

No, that is not the case. A reference has to be accurate and objective, it can be 'bad' so long as it is accurate.

The problem comes when your issue with the person is subjective, but if, for example, their timekeeping was poor then so long as you have the records to prove it you can say so. If they had been subject to disciplinary action then you can say so and so on.

The time you have an issue is if you say something that is negative that can't be backed up but so long as you stick to provable facts you are fine.