Where to learn to fly?

[LeeThePeople]

My brother and I are looking to learn to fly, only for pleasure and want PPL's. In Manchester there's a good number of flight schools, some based at City Airport (used to be Barton) and at Manchester Airport. We are unsure of which to go for, one gives us experience at a big international airport but the other gives us experience at a smaller airfield that we are more likely to be using on a regular basis. Obviously both is useful experience but which would you go for?

Another thing, which im asking on behalf of my brother is how do you keep and maintain your own plane? Obviously he cant bring it home and would need to find hanger space. What sort of price do places offer this for? Barton is his prefered location if anyone knows a rough idea of costs? he will talk to then when he is back in the country but I thought idask.

[eharding]

You'll get a broader response from the Private Flying forum of Pprune, or the Students forum at www.flyer.co.uk, but I'd say go to Barton or another small club for your PPL training. Doing your PPL at a large airport will probably involve you burning large amounts of block time (i.e. cash) farting around on the ground or in the air waiting to fit in with the heavy commercial traffic.

[LeeThePeople]

Thanks, Ill have a look at those sites

[eharding]

Regarding the second part of your post - going with a type administered by the LAA, as opposed to the CAA, is definately the way to go to keep costs under control. Whilst ostensibly 'homebuilt' types, the build quality of a lot of LAA aircraft is second to none, whilst buying into a 30 year old Piper or Cessna might seem cheap at first, the maintenance bills can be eye-watering. Take a look at the RV series as examples of fast tourers which knock the spots off your average spamcan, in terms of performance and cost.

Parking or hangarage costs vary wildly, depending on how much of a premium / waiting list there is at the airfield concerned. Currently, my syndicates are paying roughly £170 a month for outside parking and £250 a month for hangarage, which is certainly at the high end of the scale, but call it London Weighting.....

[Pobolycwm]

Have you considered gliding ? costs a fraction of powered flight and has in my opinion more thrills, you turn with much more bank and learn spinning, dive and stall recovery early on. At the very least it will teach you how to fly without all the technical clutter / procedures / constraints of powered flight,you can then always carry across these skills to powered flight.
You`ll get a couple of trial flights at any gliding club for around £35, just turn up at one when they`re flying and tell them you want a trial flight, everyone will be keen to get you up in the air

[Obiwonkeyblokey]

I have a beechcraft sundowner which I keep at filton for about 200 a month, costs about 1600 a year to insure.

Its going to be for sale soon, by the way - the mercedes of the training aircraft! PM me of youre interested.



Theres nothing like it to start with, being able to hop in and off you go, but ensure that you will use it otherwise it makes a Sunseeker look cheap.

Edited by Obiwonkeyblokey on Monday 11th May 13:28

Edited by Obiwonkeyblokey on Monday 11th May 13:29

[LeeThePeople]

Thanks for the links, after reading through Flyer.co.uk Barton seems to be highly recommended. So we will be heading there, the fees look to good to be true compared to other places though £8k for everything including one attempt at all tests, we expect to pay about twice that but its still a good price.

Gliding doesnt seem to have an appeal at the moment but im sure it will, I got into boats and loved powerboats and sailing had little appeal. Now I only sail, its something to do with the more effort and knowlege you put in the more you get back, rather than tap the throttle to go faster.

Thanks for the heads up on your plane for sale but I think we will get licensed and then work out what style of plane will suit our needs.

Can you go fast flying low down through mountains like you see on youtube or is that military only? Obviously once experienced!

[JW911]

LeeThePeople said:

Can you go fast flying low down through mountains like you see on youtube or is that military only? Obviously once experienced!

Yes, you can given suitable training. The proviso being the height restrictions are somewhat more restrictive for civilians than the military (500 ft minimum safe distance rather than 250 ft (or less) minimum safe distance).

[flyingjase]

I wouldn't worry about where to learn to fly, I would worry more about the instructor who is going to teach you to fly.

There is a real mix of people out there from young hours builders to retired RAF / professional pilots, and you need to have a personal chemistry and be able to work to their teaching style.

I was fortunate enough to be taught by an ex RAF pilot who was very patient and had a great way of explaining things - a real pleasure to fly with.

I renewed my licence a few years ago and went with a much younger hours builder and when we were taxying out to the holding point, he said 'I find this really boring and can't wait to start flying the big stuff' Great, I'm paying £180 per hour who doesn't want to be there.

Good luck with the lessons

Jason

[flyingjase]

Obiwonkeyblokey said:

I have a beechcraft sundowner which I keep at filton for about 200 a month, costs about 1600 a year to insure.

Its going to be for sale soon, by the way - the mercedes of the training aircraft! PM me of youre interested.



Theres nothing like it to start with, being able to hop in and off you go, but ensure that you will use it otherwise it makes a Sunseeker look cheap.

Edited by Obiwonkeyblokey on Monday 11th May 13:28

Edited by Obiwonkeyblokey on Monday 11th May 13:29

Just out of interest, why are you selling it? I'm in the market at the moment but was thinking of buying an Arrow,

[shirt]

LeeThePeople said:

Thanks for the links, after reading through Flyer.co.uk Barton seems to be highly recommended. So we will be heading there, the fees look to good to be true compared to other places though £8k for everything including one attempt at all tests, we expect to pay about twice that but its still a good price.

£16k for a ppl. each? even £8k seems on the high side.

[eharding]

JW911 said:

LeeThePeople said:

Can you go fast flying low down through mountains like you see on youtube or is that military only? Obviously once experienced!

Yes, you can given suitable training. The proviso being the height restrictions are somewhat more restrictive for civilians than the military (500 ft minimum safe distance rather than 250 ft (or less) minimum safe distance).

...and a suitable place to do it

One major problem with mountain flying in your average civilian SEP is that in even moderate wind conditions the mountains can generate unexpected sink rates which can exceed the best rate of climb of the aircraft, with predictable results - and if the downdraughts don't get you, the general turbulence can have a good go at ripping the wings off; and when you get into the mountains, you realise that your options for a forced landing in the event of engine failure are limited, to say the least.

The other issue is that in a lots of the choice locations in the UK you can also stand a decent chance of meeting the military coming the other way, sometimes in places you might least expect it (as JW911 might recall, we had a pair of aircraft returning to Glenforsa on Mull last week rather surprised to find a pair of RAF C130s beating the place up).

Not that I'm trying to put you off - once you get your PPL, I'd highly recommend a tour of the Scottish Highlands and Islands for example - some of the most stunning scenery in the UK - just don't end up as part of the landscape though.

[JW911]

eharding said:

...as JW911 might recall, we had a pair of aircraft returning to Glenforsa on Mull last week rather surprised to find a pair of RAF C130s beating the place up.

Made for a good Sideshow though.

Edited by JW911 on Tuesday 12th May 12:19

[Geneve]

LeeThePeople said:

Another thing, which im asking on behalf of my brother is how do you keep and maintain your own plane? Obviously he cant bring it home....

Have you considered helicopters?

Yes, more expensive, but the ultimate flying experience and such fabulous fun. Fixed wing is fine for covering greater distances, but helicopters are so much more versatile. And, yes, you can bring it home (if your garden is big enough).

[Obiwonkeyblokey]

flyingjase said:

Obiwonkeyblokey said:

I have a beechcraft sundowner which I keep at filton for about 200 a month, costs about 1600 a year to insure.

Its going to be for sale soon, by the way - the mercedes of the training aircraft! PM me of youre interested.



Theres nothing like it to start with, being able to hop in and off you go, but ensure that you will use it otherwise it makes a Sunseeker look cheap.

Edited by Obiwonkeyblokey on Monday 11th May 13:28

Edited by Obiwonkeyblokey on Monday 11th May 13:29

Just out of interest, why are you selling it? I'm in the market at the moment but was thinking of buying an Arrow,

Last flew in December and prior to that in August. Mainly as I started motor racing last year and time and money have started heading in that direction. as well as that we had our frist child 2 weeks ago which has further scuppered the time available to fly. a shame really as I really love flying it, but cant really justify the cost of having it sit there. I think I will look for a share in a strip type aircraft when this one goes.

Its not as fast or as big as an arrow but with the 180hp engine it carries quite a nice load and being a Beechcraft is beautifully built ( relative to a piper or cessna of the same age) there's an advert in the classifieds, other stuff, flying machines. or..... http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1034486.htm

Edited by Obiwonkeyblokey on Wednesday 13th May 14:20