More redundancy advice please?
Discussion
Basically 4 weeks ago my company announced some redundancies & i was told in writing that my position was safe for the forseable future. I was told verbally that my position was safe for atleast 12 to 18 months but unfortunatly they were making my manager redundant because of job title duplication (ie they didnt need one manager in the uk & another in germany).
Anyway, in the meantime i had asked something in writing regarding the verbal agreement & i was promised this in writing. I recieved a call today from HR asking me to pop up & see them to which i agreed & went straight up. I was expecting to recieve my letter safegarding my forseable future but instead i was told that they now want to keep my manager on for the 12 to 18 months & make me redundant within the next 3 months! As you can expect i was shocked & angry & have another meeting tomorrow to raise any questions/issues etc. Can they do this to somebody or is there someting i could to to panick them a bit or do i just have to accept it & move on?
Anyway, in the meantime i had asked something in writing regarding the verbal agreement & i was promised this in writing. I recieved a call today from HR asking me to pop up & see them to which i agreed & went straight up. I was expecting to recieve my letter safegarding my forseable future but instead i was told that they now want to keep my manager on for the 12 to 18 months & make me redundant within the next 3 months! As you can expect i was shocked & angry & have another meeting tomorrow to raise any questions/issues etc. Can they do this to somebody or is there someting i could to to panick them a bit or do i just have to accept it & move on?
Sorry to hear that.
Perhaps get some free legal advice as it sounds wrong, but not illegal, to inform you that you are safe in writing then withdraw it within a short period.
If you like the company, find out if you can put yourself forward for another position.
If not, fight for the best payout possible.
Good luck.
Wow, 15 years.
It is a terrible way to treat someone after such loyalty and the whole notice of safety is a real mess up on their part.
However, do you think you could get a similar or better job elsewhere? Perhaps now is the time for a much needed change.
And just think of the redundancy you'll pocket after 15 years of service.
Stay positive
Cheers guys. 
Unfortunatly for me i started 2 days before my 18 birthday so the payout is crap because of my age where as if i was alot older the payout is almost double for the same lengh of service.
Because of the nature of my job, (crash testing child restraints, aircraft seats & cars)
it would be very difficult to find anything else like it, certainly wouldnt find anything local to me.
Unfortunatly for me i started 2 days before my 18 birthday so the payout is crap because of my age where as if i was alot older the payout is almost double for the same lengh of service.
Because of the nature of my job, (crash testing child restraints, aircraft seats & cars)
it would be very difficult to find anything else like it, certainly wouldnt find anything local to me.
Jasper Gilder said:
I wonder if this amounts to unfair selection for redundancy on the basis of indirect age discrimination ( if you're cheaper to get rid of than your boss)
It's a bit thin to say the least but would give you a few phrases to use....
It's a bit thin to say the least but would give you a few phrases to use....
I was thinking the same. Could this situaton fall under constructive dismissal?Jasper Gilder said:
I wonder if this amounts to unfair selection for redundancy on the basis of indirect age discrimination ( if you're cheaper to get rid of than your boss)
It's a bit thin to say the least but would give you a few phrases to use....
Never really thought about it that way. They would however be paying his salary which is huge compared to mine so in that respect, they would be better of keeping me.It's a bit thin to say the least but would give you a few phrases to use....
boobles said:
Jasper Gilder said:
I wonder if this amounts to unfair selection for redundancy on the basis of indirect age discrimination ( if you're cheaper to get rid of than your boss)
It's a bit thin to say the least but would give you a few phrases to use....
Never really thought about it that way. They would however be paying his salary which is huge compared to mine so in that respect, they would be better of keeping me.It's a bit thin to say the least but would give you a few phrases to use....
You don't actually say what the 'new' pool of selection or rationale is.
This should be your starting point. I think from your first posting you were one of a number at risk performing the same or similar job. What's happened to the rest?
Just an update. How do i go about writing a letter of Agreivance?
How do i start it, what should i include please?
Our HR Director for the company has admitted infront of me & 2 witnesses that they have handled my case "very poorly" after initially telling me that i would be employed for atleast 12 to 18 months only to change there minds & now tell me that i could be gone within 2 months time. Surely there must be something i can do without it going to court?
How do i start it, what should i include please?
Our HR Director for the company has admitted infront of me & 2 witnesses that they have handled my case "very poorly" after initially telling me that i would be employed for atleast 12 to 18 months only to change there minds & now tell me that i could be gone within 2 months time. Surely there must be something i can do without it going to court?
A grievance letter does not need to contain much, something along the lines of "I am extremely unhappy with the manner in which I have been dealt with in connection with the ongoing redundancy situation and I would like to invoke the grievance procedure"
You will then be invited to a meeting to state your grievance.
You will then be invited to a meeting to state your grievance.
You should be very explicit about what you are complaining about, list all the items and whether you feel they have breached any company guidelines/policy/contract or Employment regulations. You also need to be clear about what outcome you think you might get. As I think I have already mentioned, you could seek clarification on why the change? how the original pool and new pool of people were chosen? what the selection criteria maybe? what they will can do to prevent your leaving?
If you really wanted to be hardball about it you could engineer a situation where they (having admitted some sort of 'wrong-doing' although the implication is it is more moral than anything else) enter into a compromise agreement with you.
If you really wanted to be hardball about it you could engineer a situation where they (having admitted some sort of 'wrong-doing' although the implication is it is more moral than anything else) enter into a compromise agreement with you.
They have already admitted there mistake with regard to giving me a letter safegaurding my future & only to reverse the decision & now make me redundant, so the have admitted some wrong doing.
There decision to keep my manager instead of me was based on "Skill sets" alone to which i dint think they could base thered ecision on that alone? Surely attendance,etc must come into affect?
They ahve already said that the secision is NOT for financial reasons, it purely head count.
There decision to keep my manager instead of me was based on "Skill sets" alone to which i dint think they could base thered ecision on that alone? Surely attendance,etc must come into affect?
They ahve already said that the secision is NOT for financial reasons, it purely head count.
If it was me going to grievance, then I would be short and sweet in the initial letter. I would then prepare a detailed statement of my exact grievance and go through that at the meeting. You don't need to pre-warn them of the exact particulars.
I would use the meeting to gets the facts established and make my feelings very clear. Also, you should be prepared to tell them what you expect the outcome of the grievance to be - for example, you might want a complete review of the process if they have already admitted a cock up.
I would use the meeting to gets the facts established and make my feelings very clear. Also, you should be prepared to tell them what you expect the outcome of the grievance to be - for example, you might want a complete review of the process if they have already admitted a cock up.
What is still unclear to me is why you and not one of the other engineers? In your previous posts you were adamant that you were more highly skilled than most of the others partly due to the experience you have gained over the years at the company.
Personally, if you want the situation resolved quickly then I would be precise about the detail in your letter or communication. If you write a generic 'I have a problem to discuss' letter then they don't know what it is and they will either investigate by talking to you anyway or you have a meeting, you state your case, they have no response for you then and go away to consider, they come back, you don't like the decision, by which time your time is already up and you have wasted your time dealing with a grievance when you could have better concentrated your efforts at securing a role somewhere else (if it goes that way). Basically, if you want a productive grievance meeting then everyone needs to know what the agenda is and be on the same page otherwise it is just a meeting for meeting's sake.
Personally, if you want the situation resolved quickly then I would be precise about the detail in your letter or communication. If you write a generic 'I have a problem to discuss' letter then they don't know what it is and they will either investigate by talking to you anyway or you have a meeting, you state your case, they have no response for you then and go away to consider, they come back, you don't like the decision, by which time your time is already up and you have wasted your time dealing with a grievance when you could have better concentrated your efforts at securing a role somewhere else (if it goes that way). Basically, if you want a productive grievance meeting then everyone needs to know what the agenda is and be on the same page otherwise it is just a meeting for meeting's sake.
There are only 3 of us in our department & we all have certain skills that contribute heavily to our success but ONE of us has to go, its as simple as that. Originally it was my manager who was going due to job title duplication here & in Germany, they have now reconsidered the situation & have come to the conclusion that they could probably cope better if i was to go rather than him, hence i will probably get made redundant. My gripe is purely based on the fact that they have messed me about in the sense that i had planned for the next 12 to 18 months where as now, i could potentially be out of work within the next 3 months which financially is a disaster for me. I realize that there is very little i can actually do.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff