Basic help please

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Discussion

dan1502

Original Poster:

686 posts

230 months

Tuesday 16th June 2009
quotequote all
Hi, i'd appreciate a bit of advice and though I realise there are plenty of threads on various forums where I can find what I need, there are so many I get confused and to be honest I haven't got the time at the moment.

I've just bought a Nilfisk 140 power washer which I needed to clean everywhere after my garden landscaping project and now might as well use it for washing the cars. I've read a few threads on foam and have some questions.

Is Bilthamber Auto Foam the best one to go for and is it ok with a cold wash?
Should I buy a heavy duty foam lance or is the one a got with the Nilfisk ok for my domestic needs?
Do I need a wider angle auto nozzle or is the variable nozzle I have ok?
How much pressure is safe to use?
Is use of a brush bad? (I got a rotary brush free with it but am concerned about swirls)
Are the under-body adapters worth while or do you just end up forcing water into places it shouldn't be?
Do you have any other tips/points that will be helpful?

On another matter, at some stage I am thinking of trying the use of a clay bar etc. However I think my 996 could probably do with a paint correction. I've seen the typical costs for a full detail on the Porsche forum but as I am in the process of setting up a new business I have to be careful at the moment. Is there anyone who you would recommend to do the paint correction without all the extras ie no work on the interior etc and what would it cost? My thinking is that rather than learn to do all this myself and have to buy the necessary equipment and products it would make more sense for someone else to do it then for me to adopt a good washing and occasional waxing routine from then on.

Thanks for your help.


PJ S

10,842 posts

242 months

Tuesday 16th June 2009
quotequote all
dan1502 said:
Hi, i'd appreciate a bit of advice and though I realise there are plenty of threads on various forums where I can find what I need, there are so many I get confused and to be honest I haven't got the time at the moment.

I've just bought a Nilfisk 140 power washer which I needed to clean everywhere after my garden landscaping project and now might as well use it for washing the cars. I've read a few threads on foam and have some questions.

Is Bilthamber Auto Foam the best one to go for and is it ok with a cold wash?
Should I buy a heavy duty foam lance or is the one a got with the Nilfisk ok for my domestic needs?
Do I need a wider angle auto nozzle or is the variable nozzle I have ok?
How much pressure is safe to use?
Is use of a brush bad? (I got a rotary brush free with it but am concerned about swirls)
Are the under-body adapters worth while or do you just end up forcing water into places it shouldn't be?
Do you have any other tips/points that will be helpful?

On another matter, at some stage I am thinking of trying the use of a clay bar etc. However I think my 996 could probably do with a paint correction. I've seen the typical costs for a full detail on the Porsche forum but as I am in the process of setting up a new business I have to be careful at the moment. Is there anyone who you would recommend to do the paint correction without all the extras ie no work on the interior etc and what would it cost? My thinking is that rather than learn to do all this myself and have to buy the necessary equipment and products it would make more sense for someone else to do it then for me to adopt a good washing and occasional waxing routine from then on.
BH AF - yes and yes.
If you can afford it, the HD lance is much superior to the supplied type.
Full amount - I use a Makita HW131, which I've seen pegged at the end of its gauge, implying 160 bar pressure, and I'm rinsing with it on a medium fan setting, 3-4 inches from the paintwork, with no ill effects.
Be wary of stonechipped areas of course, but otherwise, the high flow rate and pressure will drive off a lot of the grime during this pre-wash stage, leaving less for the mitt to contend with.
Definitely steer clear of the brush attachment - use it on the walls, decking, conservatory windows, but for God's sake keep it well away from vehicle paintwork!
Definitely worth using in the arches and under the sills, where most people forget about.
Yes, ignore the in-built detergent tank if it has one, only works under low pressure, oh, and don't be afraid to get wet - which you will.

Nothing to prevent you using a clay bar - correction required or not - as the contamination it lifts out of the paintwork is not the same thing as swirls/scratches.
In fact, you need to do this as a matter of course, and prior to any corrective work.
You'll be amazed at the sheer difference in looks alone, that a good claying can provide, before you even put on your chose wax or sealant.
If you're getting the Auto-foam, you may as well grab the Auto-clay too.

All good detailers should be fine with only providing the correction process, if you so wish - you're the client after all - leaving you to deal with the interior, waxing, tyre dressing, etc.
It's just a matter of discussing it with them.

dan1502

Original Poster:

686 posts

230 months

Tuesday 16th June 2009
quotequote all
Thanks for the advice.

My lance is variable pressure but I don't think the angle is variable though I used it yesterday backed off a small twist and it was fine.

Regarding the detailing, I was really looking for a recommendation. Someone posted on the Porsche forum recently who had found someone in the Manchester area who did a good job at a reasonable price for a full detail - I'll drop them a message and find out who it was.

It looks like it's time to try the clay bar then!

Does anyone know where I can find the cheapest deal on a heavy duty foam lance?


PJ S

10,842 posts

242 months

Tuesday 16th June 2009
quotequote all
They are all much the same, but if the one you have works okay (variable dilution ratio rather than pressure I think you meant to say) then stick with it.
I had it pegged as a copy of the Karcher one.
But if you want to go with one of the HD lances, then Autobrite Direct is my choice of supplier.

As for detailer recommendation - Off Your Marks is one in the general vacinity (Chesire, iirc) or FinerDetails that I know of.

dan1502

Original Poster:

686 posts

230 months

Wednesday 17th June 2009
quotequote all
Sorry, I meant that the nozzle on my high pressure lance (not foam lance) is variable pressure but I don't think it varies the angle hence why I was wondering if the auto nozzle is worth bothering with.

PJ S

10,842 posts

242 months

Wednesday 17th June 2009
quotequote all
Ah.....I see, I think!
Not au fait with the Nilfisk offering, and presumed the rinse lance was like the Makita's and others that change the fan spread from narrow to wide, depending on the task required from it.

dan1502

Original Poster:

686 posts

230 months

Wednesday 17th June 2009
quotequote all
Right, I think I'm going to bite the bullet and by a HD foam lance from Elite Car Care along with some Bilt Hamber Auto Foam. I'm also thinking of buying some Bilt Hamber Auto Clay (I've never tried claying before). I've already got pleny of autoglym super resin polish. I'm now wondering whether I should buy some other bit and bobs like a microfibre drying towel, (I already have a mit), a grit guard, some applicator pads, buffing cloth and some wax or sealant. Given that my car has some swirl marks, would I be best going ahead with this and polishing by hand, buying a DA polisher or just paying to get the paint corrected and doing the rest myself. I guess if I did go the whole hog I would treat the wife's car too but am really unsure of the best route to take.

Thanks

Dan

Just read another thread on here which is making me feel a bit cautious regarding using a machine polisher with no experience though I would be interested to see what you think.

Edited by dan1502 on Wednesday 17th June 22:25

dan1502

Original Poster:

686 posts

230 months

Thursday 18th June 2009
quotequote all
Oh well I've bitten the bullett and ordered the HD Lance from Elite Car Care and couldn't help but buy a few other things at the same time - Bilt Hamber Auto Foam, Clay and Auto Balm a Grit Guard, a drying towel and some microfibre cloths for buffing and a couple of applicator pads. I figured I'll probably have a go at claying then use my existing autoglym SRP then finish with the Auto Balm. I've not decided whether to get a DA Polisher yet - what do you think?

PJ S

10,842 posts

242 months

Thursday 18th June 2009
quotequote all
Hard to say - how confident do you feel?
Can you get a panel to practise on for a while, getting the feel of the machine at it's various speeds, with the variety of pad and polish combinations?
SRP then AB - only if you're hand working the abrasives element of SRP. If not, then AB on its own will mask the swirls/scratches as much as SRP will, if not more, and save you having to wait 24 hours for AG EGP to cure over the SRP.
So, aside from the lack of abrasives, you gain in process and time (30-60 mins to cure before adding a 2nd layer) just going with AB.
If you do decide to make use of the SRP, then have some Panel Wipe/IPA to clean the paint thoroughly, then add the AB, but it'll be a tougher job due to the extra step of cleansing the paintwork, and trying to knock back the swirls by hand.
A machine will make the job easier, and more/fully effective, depending on how deep they are and what amount of clearcoat you've got to work with.
Always worth bearing in mind it may not be possible to get full correction on every panel.

dan1502

Original Poster:

686 posts

230 months

Thursday 18th June 2009
quotequote all
I think that's the problem really. Whilst I'd quite like to practice I can't really afford the time. I guess I'll probably clay my car and then use the Bilt Hamber Auto Balm. I might then clay the wife's focus and just use the autoglym with the SFX applicators I've ordered.

Hopefully the results will be decent enough for the timebeing and I can treat myself (well my car) to a paint correction once my business is up and running and cashflow permits!

It's amazing how the costs mount up. I've spent about £120 so far plus the pressure washer though that was mainly to clean up after the landscaping project (the patio cleaner I bought as an extra had a bit missing so I took that back today and got a refund which I put towards the HD Lance). Maybe a should charge the neighbours for car washes!


dan1502

Original Poster:

686 posts

230 months

Monday 22nd June 2009
quotequote all
Well, everything has just arrived. I just have one question.

By how much should I dilute the foam solution I put in the lance bottle (if at all)?

Cheers

Dan

PJ S

10,842 posts

242 months

Monday 22nd June 2009
quotequote all
Depending on how dirty the car is, start off with 150ml foam and 850ml water.
Iirc, the lance you have just got, is a bit "Irish", in that it should be turned towards the - in order to get more foam, NOT the + as would be the logical approach.
There's something a bit more long winded, that will help get the correct desired amount, which I'll explain later when I've a bit more time.
But that should get you off and running.

dan1502

Original Poster:

686 posts

230 months

Monday 22nd June 2009
quotequote all
Thanks - I'll wait for your long winded answer as I won't get a chance to do anything for a day or two anyway.

PJ S

10,842 posts

242 months

Saturday 4th July 2009
quotequote all
Sorry Dan, forgot about this thread......oops!
Here's the info I said I'd post up:
in lieu of a litre marked 25L container to hand, a close approximation can be had from doing the following exercise.
Measure 1L of water into the lance container, and attach to PW. Run for 30 seconds, then remove.
Remeasure the amount of water in the lance (or use scales from the beginning - 1L = 1kg plus the container's weight) and multiple by 2.
Using the manufacturer's stated specs, work out if not provided a such, the flow rate per minute. Let's say it's 5, and your lance used 350ml, then in 1min, the output theoretically would be 5.7L
For a PIR of 4%, you'll need 228ml of solution in the container, and 772ml of water. No need to be this exact - 200-225 as it looks in a measuring jug, would be fine.
This 4% is for heavy grime, but still LSP-safe, and typically 2% is enough.

Bear in mind if you change the setting of the adjuster on the lance, you should redo the math/measuring above. Most people whack it up to full, but others will drop it down, and run with a neat(er) solution, which they say results in less product being used - still mean to test that one out myself.

paintman

7,817 posts

205 months

Saturday 4th July 2009
quotequote all
Be careful using a high pressure water jet close to paintwork.
The risk is that if you have a stone chip that has penetrated the lacquer the water jet can remove a chunk of the lacquer around the chip. Seen a few where that has happened on front bumpers & bonnets - areas that tend to get stone damage.

7even

462 posts

208 months

Sunday 5th July 2009
quotequote all
paintman said:
Be careful using a high pressure water jet close to paintwork.
The risk is that if you have a stone chip that has penetrated the lacquer the water jet can remove a chunk of the lacquer around the chip. Seen a few where that has happened on front bumpers & bonnets - areas that tend to get stone damage.
Good advice, Not just re-painted panels, It can happen with OEM paintwork.