Engeneering (need advice)

[bigian64]

Is any one here an engineer?
I have been a builder for many years now, and after recently discovering i have dyslexia, and with the credit crunch i have decided to re-train as an engineer, the obvious choice is civil and structural. However having done some research into the various forms of engineering i have some what of a dilemma.
Every wing of engineering seems really interesting. I love problem solving as well as being creative, and these quality's seem to be inherent in all form of engineering.
I have read various job descriptions, and the bumpf given out by university's. but what does an engineer really do? What is the day to day grind like? What Are the good point`s and bad points?

Any advice would be very help full.

[shirt]

an engineering degree course is a fkload of maths and physics, you need to be prepared for lots of that and little in the way of practical work - unless you do a mech. course and plump for one of the uni's who have gone for problem based learning. PBL has more emphasis on group based project work and less exams.

aerospace is a fkload x 10 of maths and physics, is very dull, but sounds good down the pub and in interviews. the dropout rate is astounding - 30 people finished our course out of 110 starters.

mech. is the 'easiest' as its quite general/broad brush rather than getting in depth in areas you'll never use. getting onto a decent grad. scheme would require a strong degree from a reputable uni.

civil/structural can involve some odd and dull topics [soil mechanics, concrete] but pays well and has the advantage that you can work in any city in the world quite easily. if you get into manufacturing/heavy industry this is not the case.

not much engineering recruiting atm, construction and heavy industry is on its arse. uni for 3-4 years would be a nice place to wait for it to recover.


i studied aero for 4 years. work in mech/manufacturing now, never used the degree at all. if i could start again i wouldn't touch engineering with a bargepole, but if i really had to i'd go for construction with architecture, or mech. and aim for the oil&gas / energy industry.

[Engineer1]

As said by Shirt, Engineering degrees have serious amounts of maths, your first year you are looking at maths maths students will look at in their second year. Graduate recruitment schemes are f'in difficult to get onto unless you picked the right uni worked hard and have done some interesting stuff. Engineering is a job with serious recession issues, it is a career that is likely to result in some time spent unemployed due to redundancy etc as the engineering department that produces the designs and provides the work can be seen as a cost to be cut.
I'm not bitter after my previous employer went bust 3 months after i started there, and the employer before that viewed me as an unnecessary cost despite the fact that the job i did was the companies USP.

[Merritt]

Engineer1 said:

As said by Shirt, Engineering degrees have serious amounts of maths, your first year you are looking at maths maths students will look at in their second year.

Also agree with this... The amount of maths on my course was incredible. Very similar drop out rates - we started with 125 in year 1, that went down to less than 90 by the start of year 2. Just over 35 graduated with honours and only 6 of us got firsts.

I would also agree with the comment regarding engineering being unstable job wise in this country. IMHO this is partly because if someone says 'Engineer' in the uk, most people assume you need your washing machine fixing. In parts of europe and the US, 'Engineer' is a reserved word in the same sense as a 'Doctor' & holds the same status.

I am Chartered with the IET and I still wonder if it was all worth it, especially as very few UK companies value Engineers in the way they should.

Steve

[Taffer]

shirt said:

aerospace is a fkload x 10 of maths and physics, is very dull, but sounds good down the pub and in interviews. the dropout rate is astounding - 30 people finished our course out of 110 starters.

I'll testify to that! Got so pissed off and demoralised I only ended up with an ordinary degree - left halfway through honours year as I had NO help or supervision with my project for the first 3 months....

After trying (and failing) to become an RN pilot I'm now doing a marine engineering cadetship. Mine is postgrad, so I only(!) need to do 6 months' sea time, NVQ portfolio and oral exam, but full cadetships (2 1/2 years) will give you a foundation degree with the option to top-up to BEng(Hons), while getting paid for the duration of your course. Marine engineering is fairly practical, as you will have to repair/overhaul equipment while at sea, but as you get your more advanced tickets you'll find yourself doing more supervision and management. It's not professional engineering, as in doing CAD, FEA, etc, etc, but the breadth of systems knowledge you need to have and the ability to deal with problems mean it's not just being a technician (no disrespect intended).

Trips away don't need to be too long - during your cadetship you'll probably be away for 4-5 months at a time, but after that you could work oil industry support (4-6 weeks on, 4-6 weeks off cycle) or ferries (usually 2 weeks on, 2 off), so if you have a family you don't need to be away from them for long spells. Although the recession is still affecting shipping, several senior officers are nearing retirement, so there is likely to be a large labour gap in the near future.

I think there are a few marine engineers about PH who will be able to let you know more about the realities of the job once qualified, so it might be worth asking their advice if you're interested.

[bigian64]

thanks for the advice people.

the maths and physics don`t bother me as physics is a subject that really interests me and maths goes hand in hand with that.
this was a major factor in my decision to undertake an engineering degree.
as i said i was just wondering what the day to day work was like.
for instance what the average day is for a civil engineer.
how do you take the pretty picture the architect has drawn and make it work?

[jfm]

bigian64 said:

thanks for the advice people.

the maths and physics don`t bother me as physics is a subject that really interests me and maths goes hand in hand with that.
this was a major factor in my decision to undertake an engineering degree.
as i said i was just wondering what the day to day work was like.
for instance what the average day is for a civil engineer.
how do you take the pretty picture the architect has drawn and make it work?

Whether maths ^ physics interest you isn't the point. Have you got the academics to survive the maths?

[shirt]

bigian64 said:

the maths and physics don`t bother me as physics is a subject that really interests me and maths goes hand in hand with that.
this was a major factor in my decision to undertake an engineering degree.

maths - well, mechanics - and physics used to interest me too. they still do, just not the areas covered in the typical degree. the maths is pointless and inescapable - its a core subject each year. as said its pitched higher than a maths degree, you jump straight into pure maths - laplace transforms and the fourier series etc., its mind numbingly dull and in any case interest does not equal ability.

your first port of call should be your local library. flick through the engineering mathematics book [k.a. stroud iirc] and also some of the structural design books. maybe the ICE's 'civil engineering procedure' if they have it. i'd then suggest going to a graduate recruitment fair to talk to recruiters, but its probably too late in the year for that now.

i take it you're thinking of starting in 2010?

[Mr POD]

Merritt said:

Engineer1 said:

As said by Shirt, Engineering degrees have serious amounts of maths, your first year you are looking at maths maths students will look at in their second year.

Also agree with this... The amount of maths on my course was incredible. Very similar drop out rates - we started with 125 in year 1, that went down to less than 90 by the start of year 2. Just over 35 graduated with honours and only 6 of us got firsts.

I would also agree with the comment regarding engineering being unstable job wise in this country. IMHO this is partly because if someone says 'Engineer' in the uk, most people assume you need your washing machine fixing. In parts of europe and the US, 'Engineer' is a reserved word in the same sense as a 'Doctor' & holds the same status.

I am Chartered with the IET and I still wonder if it was all worth it, especially as very few UK companies value Engineers in the way they should.

Steve

I somehow managed to avoid any significant maths, by Studying the first year of a HND in Production Engineering (I failed Maths A level) and it was all statistics as required for process control etc. I jumped to the second year of the Honours Degree due to good 1st year grades (80+% in Maths with Stats) , and 20 odd years On I too am a Chartered Engineer with The IET, and recently redundant, I'm looking at contact jobs as there are no permanent jobs in the NW. I'm thinking that going into the police or banking at aged 22 with a Degree in engineering might have been more lucrative and interesting.

[a boardman]

why not have a read of a couple of engineering type books.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Structural-Mechanics-M-F-D...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Design-Structural-Elements...

these are basic books but give you an insight.

[Zad]

Be prepared for engineering to pay considerably less than being a builder. Also the whole "those students, they only do 5 hours a week" really doesn't appear to engineering. After 6 months, even the most enthusiastic student gets the feeling that degrees are designed to put you off the subject for life. I fear your dyslexia really could be a big problem

The thing is, of the dyslexic people I know, they are all incredibly creative. Kinda the opposite of autism. Had you considered doing something more design based? I'm thinking one of the architecture courses that are biased towards creativity rather than hard maths.

This was an important book for me, both as an undergrad and postgrad. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Engineering-Mathe... Unfortunately the look-inside pages are of the solutions manual not the book itself.

Okay, now having hopefully put you off and explained how it is 3 or 4 (or even 5 for a sandwich masters) years of really hard work, I have to say that if I had the money and time, I would do it all again in a shot. I really would.

[Sam_68]

I'm not an Engineer, but I work with them on a regular basis...

At risk of being negative, remember that if you want to get anywhere as an engineer (particularly Civil), you'll spend as much time reading and writing reports as doing calculations. And anyone with dyslexia who prepares drawings (another big part of the job in most cases) can be a downright liability. I used to have a dyslexic CAD Technician working for me who, despite being very quick and competent at drawing, would realistically never progress much above office junior level because he had to rely on someone time-consumingly checking and correcting every note on every drawing that he produced.

Dyslexia can still be a pretty big disadvantage in the real world (...yes, I know about the DDA, but the building industry isn't noted for its socially progressive views).

Edited by Sam_68 on Wednesday 24th June 18:58

[bigian64]

Zad said:

Be prepared for engineering to pay considerably less than being a builder. Also the whole "those students, they only do 5 hours a week" really doesn't appear to engineering.

tbh the jobs i have looked into pay a similar amount to what i have been earning, during the summer, i could earn A lot of money, but come winter time, when you get laid off every November and don`t get back in till the end of jan seriously cuts into your savings,
and as for the studying i`m in the fortunate position of the Mrs earning enough to support me through uni, meaning i can treat it as a 9-5 job plus home work. i`m more than willing to put the work in. I need to.

Zad said:

The thing is, of the dyslexic people I know, they are all incredibly creative. Kinda the opposite of autism. Had you considered doing something more design based? I'm thinking one of the architecture courses that are biased towards creativity rather than hard maths.

The problem with doing an architecture course is that it requires evidence of creative flair to be accepted, i however have no evidence of this, as well as being far to much of a pragmatist. i couldn`t bring my self to put curved in when a straight line would do.

Zad said:

Okay, now having hopefully put you off and explained how it is 3 or 4 (or even 5 for a sandwich masters) years of really hard work, I have to say that if I had the money and time, I would do it all again in a shot. I really would.

for me i`m looking at 5 years just for a normal degree, as i first have to attend a year of college to do an "access to higher education" course, this is the equivalent to AS levels in English, maths and 2 out of the three sciences,(I have chosen physics and chemistry)
After success full completion of that course i will then need to attend a foundation year at Bradford uni. and providing i complete that i should then be accepted to go onto any normal engineering degree. and i would like to do my masters, which would then take it up to 6 years by which time i will be 33 years old.

[bigian64]

Sam_68 said:

I'm not an Engineer, but I work with them on a regular basis...

At risk of being negative, remember that if you want to get anywhere as an engineer (particularly Civil), you'll spend as much time reading and writing reports as doing calculations. And anyone with dyslexia who prepares drawings (another big part of the job in most cases) can be a downright liability. I used to have a dyslexic CAD Technician working for me who, despite being very quick and copetent at drawing, would realistically never progress much above office junior level because he had to rely on someone time-consumingly checking and correcting every note on every drawing that he produced.

Dyslexia can still be a pretty big disadvantage in the real world (...yes, I know about the DDA, but the building industry isn't noted for its socially progressive views).

I`m quite fortunate with my dyslexia, as it mostly affects my punctuation. and grammar.
I read & wright slightly slower than other people, and i tend to spell phonetically however with a decent spell checker i usually manage ok.
And while i know it will put me at a disadvantage, I have never been one to sit at the bottom of the ladder.
I always have and always will strive to be top of my game, I have always been the go to guy when things get difficult.
I am fully aware that I am at a disadvantage.
However having spent the last 10 years knowing that i am capable of more, And feeling i have let my self down because i didn`t try hard enough in my gcse`s ect combined with the knowledge that I have to prove my self to be not just as capable but more so than my pears because of my dyslexia doe`s just give me personally the fuel i need to achieve all i can, this is the last chance i have to make something of my self, so i need to grasp it with both hands.

[bigian64]

And as for the maths, I had no real trouble with maths in school. (at gcse level) it was somthing i enjoyed and was relatively good at,


Thanks for the advice people, it is very very help full, please keep it coming

[Sam_68]

bigian64 said:

The problem with doing an architecture course is that it requires evidence of creative flair to be accepted, i however have no evidence of this, as well as being far to much of a pragmatist.

Oh, I dunno... I've had a very successful career as an Architect, despite being similarly pragmatic and logical. In my case, it meant I was one of the rare breed of Architects who are actually commercially aware, hence much in demand amongst developers.

But again, regrettably, you'll spend at least as much time reading and writing as drawing if you become an Architect. Apart from all the notes on drawings, there are endless reports, Design and Access statements, application forms and meeting minutes to deal with.

[Sam_68]

bigian64 said:

I`m quite fortunate with my dyslexia, as it mostly affects my punctuation. and grammar.

I must admit, you're doing pretty well with your posts on this thread.

Once you've got over the hump of early career acceptance, you might be OK, since you'll have secretaries to type for you and technicians to prepare drawings for you. But even then you shouldn't underestimate the huge amount of highly technical/legal written information that you'll have to read and absorb, often very quickly, against impossible deadlines.

I'll be completely candid here (in the knowledge that it is probably in breach of the DDA) and say that I would take some real convincing before I employed a graduate Engineer, Architect or Technician who I knew to be dyslexic, as I just know what a limitation it would be to their productivity and accuracy.

[blank]

I've just finished a BEng in Automotive Engineering, and am starting a Masters year in September. (hoping the job market will be better in a year's time!)


There are lots of Automotive courses around, they're very similar to Mechanical Engineering courses. Lots of maths, physics (mechanics), bit of business and management stuff aswell.


I've found that engineering has a disproportionately high number of dyslexic people, so that shouldn't be too much of a worry. One of my mates got one of the highest overall awards and is very dyslexic, he had to work very hard for it though.


As for actual work.....

My placement year was spent at a car factory, my job involved reporting/finding problems on cars to the people who needed to fix them (i.e. dodgy part, dodgy assembly or dodgy design). It was very interesting and great experience. There were plenty of people with engineering degrees, most doing jobs similar to mine, or management for those who'd been there longer.

One of my mates did a similar job to mine, looking after test cars at Millbrook and reporting their problems. Again, the people with engineering degrees were doing similar or managers.

Lots of people end up doing thinks like CAD. Which is OK if you like it, but I couldn't be a CAD monkey. Some mates were, and they didn't enjoy it.

[bigian64]

Sam_68 said:

I must admit, you're doing pretty well with your posts on this thread.

Thank you kindly sir.

Sam_68 said:

Once you've got over the hump of early career acceptance, you might be OK, since you'll have secretaries to type for you and technicians to prepare drawings for you. But even then you shouldn't underestimate the huge amount of highly technical/legal written information that you'll have to read and absorb, often very quickly, against impossible deadlines.

As with any job one glowing reference is worth more than any qualification,

Sam_68 said:

I'll be completely candid here (in the knowledge that it is probably in breach of the DDA) and say that I would take some real convincing before I employed a graduate Engineer, Architect or Technician who I knew to be dyslexic, as I just know what a limitation it would be to their productivity and accuracy.

I am well aware of this, as i said i will have to work harder than all my peers, to prove my self. As i said once i have at least one glowing reference hopfully i will have proven my self.

all i can do is whilst i am at uni i need to Work my tiny wee balls off, and get a first.
Other than that there isn`t much more i can do.
although any suggestions would be welcome.

[Sam_68]

bigian64 said:

As with any job one glowing reference is worth more than any qualification.

Except that I can't remember the last time I actually bothered to take up a formal reference! If you can't come up with several glowing references, then realistically you're not just useles, you're a Billy-no-mates, so my view (and I know that of many others) is that they are completely worthless.

In my particularly incestuous corner of the business, I usually just do a bit of ringing round to talk to people who have worked at the same company as a prospective employee, though of course if you've made a name for yourself as being proficient, the end result is exactly the same.

I've got to say, I'd have thought you'd find better opportunities in Mechanical engineering, as Blank suggested, though.

Civil and Structural can be pretty dull until you have risen to Project Engineer level (though I guess the same can be said for many jobs) and - unless you spend your whole career as a Site Engineer (which tends to limit your career development; most people like to get a mixture of site and design skills) - relies heavily upon written communication.

My knowledge of Mechanical Engineering is limited to a number of friends in the field, but it does seem to have a much better range of opportunities for people whose strengths lie more mathematical or practical areas.