Camouflage patterns?
Discussion
So last weekend I was at a loose end when I had a sudden urge to recreate my younger years and build an Airfix kit.
I picked up a Lancaster and the required paints, glue and the like. I'm at the painting stage and last night I got to wondering about camouflage patterns.
Are they completely random or does every aircraft have the exact same pattern? How are they designed?
For some reason I had an image of a factory full of Lancasters with people climbing all over them with buckets of paint just putting randome patches of green and brown everywhere..
I picked up a Lancaster and the required paints, glue and the like. I'm at the painting stage and last night I got to wondering about camouflage patterns.
Are they completely random or does every aircraft have the exact same pattern? How are they designed?
For some reason I had an image of a factory full of Lancasters with people climbing all over them with buckets of paint just putting randome patches of green and brown everywhere..
I know on more modern aircraft that the pattern was the same for each aircraft. I know some of the aircraft I've seen repainted have had proper drawings for the camouflage pattern and all the other little markings.These patterns were the same whatever the airforce, but sometimes different colours.
I seem to recall from the days when I used to make models that the camouflage patterns were all pretty much the same.
I seem to recall from the days when I used to make models that the camouflage patterns were all pretty much the same.
RAF camouflage patterns were specified by the Air Ministry for each aircraft in RAF and RN service. There tended to be two versions of each scheme - called the A and B schemes. They were essentially mirror images of each other.
When building a model, depending on how accurately you want to paint it, but you should really follow the painting guide in the instructions. However, most serious modellers will go a but further and, if possible, try and find pictures of the actual aircraft they are building. If that's not possible, finding pictures of similar aircraft from the same squadron from around the same time will help confirm what colour scheme and pattern was in use at the time.
Most of us have alternative references for these aircraft which may give alternative images of the subject.
I am building a Royal Navy Fairey Fulmar at the moment and I have seen two colour drawings of the aircraft IO am building - and the camouflage patterns depicted in the two sets of drawings do differ in certain respects.
The best way to paint a Lancaster is to paint the black surfaces first (bottom and side fuselage, underside of wings and tailplanes, tailfins). Then paint the upper colour of Matt Earth followed by the disruptive scheme of Dark Green.
In wartime service, Lancasters weathered quite rapidly and exhaust staining was extensive as well.
This is PA474, the Battle of Britain Memorial Flights airworthy example. It is in better condition that most wartime Lancasters but you can see the pattern clearly and some exhaust staining.
When building a model, depending on how accurately you want to paint it, but you should really follow the painting guide in the instructions. However, most serious modellers will go a but further and, if possible, try and find pictures of the actual aircraft they are building. If that's not possible, finding pictures of similar aircraft from the same squadron from around the same time will help confirm what colour scheme and pattern was in use at the time.
Most of us have alternative references for these aircraft which may give alternative images of the subject.
I am building a Royal Navy Fairey Fulmar at the moment and I have seen two colour drawings of the aircraft IO am building - and the camouflage patterns depicted in the two sets of drawings do differ in certain respects.
The best way to paint a Lancaster is to paint the black surfaces first (bottom and side fuselage, underside of wings and tailplanes, tailfins). Then paint the upper colour of Matt Earth followed by the disruptive scheme of Dark Green.
In wartime service, Lancasters weathered quite rapidly and exhaust staining was extensive as well.
This is PA474, the Battle of Britain Memorial Flights airworthy example. It is in better condition that most wartime Lancasters but you can see the pattern clearly and some exhaust staining.
Thanks for the informative replies guys.
Thats an interesting pic Eric...The model I have shows the exact same pattern as the BBMF Lancaster.
I did all the black first using masking tape down the sides of the aircraft to get a straight line. Its not looking to bad even if I do say so myself!
Thats an interesting pic Eric...The model I have shows the exact same pattern as the BBMF Lancaster.
I did all the black first using masking tape down the sides of the aircraft to get a straight line. Its not looking to bad even if I do say so myself!
Are you actually building the Airfix 1/72 Lanc? If so, which version is it. It's not a bad model but dates from around 1980.
There have been two new models of the Lnacaster released in recent years, one by Hasegawa and another by Revell. The Revell vesion is fantastic - and it is actually cheaper to buy than the Airfix one.
I have two unbuilt Revell models in my pile of "models to do" plus one of the Airfix ones. The Airfix version I have is one of the B1 Specials, adapted to carry the Barnes Wallis "Tallboy" and "Grand Slam" bombs - so it looks quite different to a standard Lanc.
There have been two new models of the Lnacaster released in recent years, one by Hasegawa and another by Revell. The Revell vesion is fantastic - and it is actually cheaper to buy than the Airfix one.
I have two unbuilt Revell models in my pile of "models to do" plus one of the Airfix ones. The Airfix version I have is one of the B1 Specials, adapted to carry the Barnes Wallis "Tallboy" and "Grand Slam" bombs - so it looks quite different to a standard Lanc.
Its an Airfix 1/72 with the options of:
Avro Lancaster B.X
No 419 Squardron Royal Canadian Air Force based at Middleton-St-George 1945.
The letters on the side are VRR.
Or
Avro Lancaster B.III
G for George, No 420 Squadron Royal Australian Air Force as preserved at the Australian war memorial in Canberra.
Lettering is ARG
I have had a look around and there is not a great range of models available off the shelf here and they certainly seem to be priced a lot higher than I remember them....this kit was AU$76 so about 40-45 pounds I think. Is that compareable to UK prices? Might have to see about getting my parents to send them over if they are cheaper there.
I was hoping I would spot something a bit different like the B1 special. Either that or a D-Day special Spitfire or C47. Thanks for the heads up on the other brands, this kit I have is looking good but is a little basic in some of the finer details.
This is the kit:
Actually in searching for that picture I have found a local hobby shop that looks like it has a better range of kits so I might go and have a brows tomorrow.
How many kits have you built Eric? I can see this becoming a bit addictive again but I wouldnt know where to put them all! I have found this kit a great way to unwind after work.
Avro Lancaster B.X
No 419 Squardron Royal Canadian Air Force based at Middleton-St-George 1945.
The letters on the side are VRR.
Or
Avro Lancaster B.III
G for George, No 420 Squadron Royal Australian Air Force as preserved at the Australian war memorial in Canberra.
Lettering is ARG
I have had a look around and there is not a great range of models available off the shelf here and they certainly seem to be priced a lot higher than I remember them....this kit was AU$76 so about 40-45 pounds I think. Is that compareable to UK prices? Might have to see about getting my parents to send them over if they are cheaper there.
I was hoping I would spot something a bit different like the B1 special. Either that or a D-Day special Spitfire or C47. Thanks for the heads up on the other brands, this kit I have is looking good but is a little basic in some of the finer details.
This is the kit:
Actually in searching for that picture I have found a local hobby shop that looks like it has a better range of kits so I might go and have a brows tomorrow.
How many kits have you built Eric? I can see this becoming a bit addictive again but I wouldnt know where to put them all! I have found this kit a great way to unwind after work.
The Airfix Lanc retails over here for around £18.00. The Revell one is about £15.00 and the Hasegawa around £35.00. The Revell kit is a beaut and a bargain. I can't wait for it to come out as a Dambuster variant. Marks and Spencer were selling it as a "special" for around £10.00 over Christmas.
I've been building kits since I was about 9 or 10 so must have built hundreds. All of those early models have long since gone to that great plastic kit graveyard in the sky.
I joined the IPMS here in the UK about 20 years ago. I'm a member of our local Farnmborough branch. The standard produced by some of the chaps is stunning. I'm very much an "average" modeller myself but recently I've been striving to improve my finnishing and learning how to use an airbrush properly.
The quality of models being produced today is amazing - but an awful lot of models that you can buy are still the same old kits you could have bought in the 1960s and 70s - so you need to know what you are buying. Having said that, bashing together a geriatric kit from 1966 can still be rewarding.
Here's the Airfix Lysander and Anson that I finished a few months ago,
I've been building kits since I was about 9 or 10 so must have built hundreds. All of those early models have long since gone to that great plastic kit graveyard in the sky.
I joined the IPMS here in the UK about 20 years ago. I'm a member of our local Farnmborough branch. The standard produced by some of the chaps is stunning. I'm very much an "average" modeller myself but recently I've been striving to improve my finnishing and learning how to use an airbrush properly.
The quality of models being produced today is amazing - but an awful lot of models that you can buy are still the same old kits you could have bought in the 1960s and 70s - so you need to know what you are buying. Having said that, bashing together a geriatric kit from 1966 can still be rewarding.
Here's the Airfix Lysander and Anson that I finished a few months ago,
Eric Mc said:
Are you actually building the Airfix 1/72 Lanc? If so, which version is it. It's not a bad model but dates from around 1980.
There have been two new models of the Lnacaster released in recent years, one by Hasegawa and another by Revell. The Revell vesion is fantastic - and it is actually cheaper to buy than the Airfix one.
I have two unbuilt Revell models in my pile of "models to do" plus one of the Airfix ones. The Airfix version I have is one of the B1 Specials, adapted to carry the Barnes Wallis "Tallboy" and "Grand Slam" bombs - so it looks quite different to a standard Lanc.
Don't forget the best of the lot Eric: the 1:48 scale Tamiya version (also available in the 'Tallboy' version:There have been two new models of the Lnacaster released in recent years, one by Hasegawa and another by Revell. The Revell vesion is fantastic - and it is actually cheaper to buy than the Airfix one.
I have two unbuilt Revell models in my pile of "models to do" plus one of the Airfix ones. The Airfix version I have is one of the B1 Specials, adapted to carry the Barnes Wallis "Tallboy" and "Grand Slam" bombs - so it looks quite different to a standard Lanc.
http://tinyurl.com/nehyd2
Cheers,
The Tamiya Land has just been re-released. However, Mr Tamiya has stated that it is not as accurate as he would now like. He says that the fuselage cross section isn't quite the right shape - being too slab sided.
I don't build 1/48 kits - too big - so I'll be happy with the Revell or AIrfix ones. Both of these kits are accurate in outline. The Airfix model, being almost 30 years old - lacks the interior detail of the Revell model. And it also deatures raised panel lines - which are now not normally seen - but it can build up into a lovely model.
I don't build 1/48 kits - too big - so I'll be happy with the Revell or AIrfix ones. Both of these kits are accurate in outline. The Airfix model, being almost 30 years old - lacks the interior detail of the Revell model. And it also deatures raised panel lines - which are now not normally seen - but it can build up into a lovely model.
Eric Mc said:
The Tamiya Land has just been re-released. However, Mr Tamiya has stated that it is not as accurate as he would now like. He says that the fuselage cross section isn't quite the right shape - being too slab sided.
I don't build 1/48 kits - too big - so I'll be happy with the Revell or AIrfix ones. Both of these kits are accurate in outline. The Airfix model, being almost 30 years old - lacks the interior detail of the Revell model. And it also deatures raised panel lines - which are now not normally seen - but it can build up into a lovely model.
I get confused with model manufacturers. The 1960's Revell SE5a I built recently is great, as is the Stearman. They are lovely models and didn't take long to build. I also built a re-released Revell Convair Tradewind from the same era; it is a nice looking model, but with huge raised rivets and a gimmiky opening front. To my eyes, the 1960's 1/72 Revell biplanes were models ahead of their time. Last year I got a 1974 Revell catalogue off EBay - looking back at the box art pictures from my childhood brought back happy memories. The picture on the box of the SE5a (my first ever model) still makes me smile.I don't build 1/48 kits - too big - so I'll be happy with the Revell or AIrfix ones. Both of these kits are accurate in outline. The Airfix model, being almost 30 years old - lacks the interior detail of the Revell model. And it also deatures raised panel lines - which are now not normally seen - but it can build up into a lovely model.
Airfix to me have always been not so good. Recent ones for me have been the Jetstream, Tucano, Tornado and Tiger Moth and I'm currently building their HMS Victory (had it a while). All are a bit crappy in my opinion: Parts don't fit properly, the mouldings are hit and miss, decals are out of register etc, etc,. I now stick mostly to Revell or Tamiya because I think I get a far superior finished article for much less effort. I used to build a lot of Matchbox models as a child and thought they were good too. I loved their large scale Mk24 Spitfire even though it is a bit clunky by modern standards.
Cheers,
The key to making a model I think is knowing in advance the amount of work that is going to be required to be done to turn it into a decent replica.
If you know this, you won't get a big shock when you empty the pieces out of the box.
Airfix have been around since 1955 and some of the moulds still in use date back to the late 1950s, An example of this would be their Gloster Gladiator (1958). Their De Havillnad Comet racer is about the same age.
However, some of their later models are a lot better, such as their Martin B-26 Marauder from 1975.
Revell are tricky for three reasons.
Firstly, they are now two companies - Revell/Monogram USA and Revell AG. The best Revell products are the new mouldings coming out of Revell AG - of which the new Lancaster is a good example. Their Hawker Hunter is fantastic.
Secondly, some of their old mouldings from the 60s and 70s are every bit as "hairy" as Airfix ones of the same era. Avoid like the plague their "old" Lancaster and B-17E.
Thirdly, Revell release models that have originated from other manufacturers - which means you might not be aware of the provenance of a Revell kit. It could be old Revell USA, old Monogram, old FROG, newish Italeri, MPM (Czech Republic), Hasegawa (Japan) or Revell AG. Revell also bought a lot of the old Matchbox moulds when Matchbox ceased production in 1991. The current Revell Handley Page Halifax and Handley Page Heyford are the old Matchbox kits.
If you know this, you won't get a big shock when you empty the pieces out of the box.
Airfix have been around since 1955 and some of the moulds still in use date back to the late 1950s, An example of this would be their Gloster Gladiator (1958). Their De Havillnad Comet racer is about the same age.
However, some of their later models are a lot better, such as their Martin B-26 Marauder from 1975.
Revell are tricky for three reasons.
Firstly, they are now two companies - Revell/Monogram USA and Revell AG. The best Revell products are the new mouldings coming out of Revell AG - of which the new Lancaster is a good example. Their Hawker Hunter is fantastic.
Secondly, some of their old mouldings from the 60s and 70s are every bit as "hairy" as Airfix ones of the same era. Avoid like the plague their "old" Lancaster and B-17E.
Thirdly, Revell release models that have originated from other manufacturers - which means you might not be aware of the provenance of a Revell kit. It could be old Revell USA, old Monogram, old FROG, newish Italeri, MPM (Czech Republic), Hasegawa (Japan) or Revell AG. Revell also bought a lot of the old Matchbox moulds when Matchbox ceased production in 1991. The current Revell Handley Page Halifax and Handley Page Heyford are the old Matchbox kits.
I remember my first big Revell kit as a kid.
After years of spaffing my paper round money and every available bit of pocket money on Airfix 1/72, I had a windfall £30 (big money in 1987, aged 11).
Straight down to the modelshop in Horsham, and slapped £29.99 on a Revell 1/24 F4 Phantom... US version...
I say US version because it came with relevant nosecones, exhausts, and all the other stuff to make just about every variant which saw service with the US armed forces. Two A4 sheets of transfers, as I recall.
It was utterly gorgeous, and I eventually plumped for a rather fetching Vietnam fighter version complete with 4 Sidewinders, drop tanks, and 4 of the bigger AAMRAMs (can't remember their name now) imbedded in the belly.
I'll get another one day, and make it properly now I've got an airbrush, dremel, and all the knowledge I have now from modelling armour.
After years of spaffing my paper round money and every available bit of pocket money on Airfix 1/72, I had a windfall £30 (big money in 1987, aged 11).
Straight down to the modelshop in Horsham, and slapped £29.99 on a Revell 1/24 F4 Phantom... US version...
I say US version because it came with relevant nosecones, exhausts, and all the other stuff to make just about every variant which saw service with the US armed forces. Two A4 sheets of transfers, as I recall.
It was utterly gorgeous, and I eventually plumped for a rather fetching Vietnam fighter version complete with 4 Sidewinders, drop tanks, and 4 of the bigger AAMRAMs (can't remember their name now) imbedded in the belly.
I'll get another one day, and make it properly now I've got an airbrush, dremel, and all the knowledge I have now from modelling armour.
Eric Mc said:
The key to making a model I think is knowing in advance the amount of work that is going to be required to be done to turn it into a decent replica.
If you know this, you won't get a big shock when you empty the pieces out of the box.
Airfix have been around since 1955 and some of the moulds still in use date back to the late 1950s, An example of this would be their Gloster Gladiator (1958). Their De Havillnad Comet racer is about the same age.
However, some of their later models are a lot better, such as their Martin B-26 Marauder from 1975.
Revell are tricky for three reasons.
Firstly, they are now two companies - Revell/Monogram USA and Revell AG. The best Revell products are the new mouldings coming out of Revell AG - of which the new Lancaster is a good example. Their Hawker Hunter is fantastic.
Secondly, some of their old mouldings from the 60s and 70s are every bit as "hairy" as Airfix ones of the same era. Avoid like the plague their "old" Lancaster and B-17E.
Thirdly, Revell release models that have originated from other manufacturers - which means you might not be aware of the provenance of a Revell kit. It could be old Revell USA, old Monogram, old FROG, newish Italeri, MPM (Czech Republic), Hasegawa (Japan) or Revell AG. Revell also bought a lot of the old Matchbox moulds when Matchbox ceased production in 1991. The current Revell Handley Page Halifax and Handley Page Heyford are the old Matchbox kits.
I knew that some Revell models were from old Matchbox dies, but didn't know which. I got a Revell Globemaster III for my birthday, looks nice (even though I seem destined to receive nothing but Boeing aircraft as presents). Presumably it's a new Revell die?If you know this, you won't get a big shock when you empty the pieces out of the box.
Airfix have been around since 1955 and some of the moulds still in use date back to the late 1950s, An example of this would be their Gloster Gladiator (1958). Their De Havillnad Comet racer is about the same age.
However, some of their later models are a lot better, such as their Martin B-26 Marauder from 1975.
Revell are tricky for three reasons.
Firstly, they are now two companies - Revell/Monogram USA and Revell AG. The best Revell products are the new mouldings coming out of Revell AG - of which the new Lancaster is a good example. Their Hawker Hunter is fantastic.
Secondly, some of their old mouldings from the 60s and 70s are every bit as "hairy" as Airfix ones of the same era. Avoid like the plague their "old" Lancaster and B-17E.
Thirdly, Revell release models that have originated from other manufacturers - which means you might not be aware of the provenance of a Revell kit. It could be old Revell USA, old Monogram, old FROG, newish Italeri, MPM (Czech Republic), Hasegawa (Japan) or Revell AG. Revell also bought a lot of the old Matchbox moulds when Matchbox ceased production in 1991. The current Revell Handley Page Halifax and Handley Page Heyford are the old Matchbox kits.
Having seen the ready build diecast model aircraft in my local model shop, I sometimes wonder why I bother building them at all. For what it costs in materials It hardly seems worth it. Then again I suppose I like a challenge, and I've never fully resolved the common sense vs economics thing.
Cheers,
Edited by dr_gn on Saturday 27th June 00:31
The Revell version (and for that matter the 1/48) also has all manner of add-on "accurising" photo etch, resin and masking.
e.g. http://www.relishmodels.co.uk/1-72-aircraft/1-72-p...
e.g. http://www.relishmodels.co.uk/1-72-aircraft/1-72-p...
I think I will have a look at airbrush kits. I have found that the paint on the Lanc looks a bit 'thick' which has the effect of making the camo pattern look a little childish if you understand? I think I have done a neat enough job but its kid of obvious that its hand painted and not by someone of the same scale as the kit...kind of hard to explain 
I brush painted for years. I've been trying to get to grips with airbrushing for many, many years and it's only in the past year and a half that I've made a determined effort to sort myself out once and for all.
Back in the 1970s I bought a simple external mix Humbrol airbrush which I never got to work properly.
In the 1990s a bought a "proper" internal mix Badger 200 but, again, was not that successful with it.
More recently I was able to buy an Aztek for about half price. At long last I found a brush that was manageable and most of what I've posted here was painted using this. However, the Aztek is not the sturdiest of designs and I am always conscious that it might break.
In the past few weeks I've revived the Badger, bought a few new needles and washers and lo and behold, I'm getting on OK with it quite well.
I may fork out and get a really good brush like an Iwata if and when I feel ready to move up a notch.
Back in the 1970s I bought a simple external mix Humbrol airbrush which I never got to work properly.
In the 1990s a bought a "proper" internal mix Badger 200 but, again, was not that successful with it.
More recently I was able to buy an Aztek for about half price. At long last I found a brush that was manageable and most of what I've posted here was painted using this. However, the Aztek is not the sturdiest of designs and I am always conscious that it might break.
In the past few weeks I've revived the Badger, bought a few new needles and washers and lo and behold, I'm getting on OK with it quite well.
I may fork out and get a really good brush like an Iwata if and when I feel ready to move up a notch.
Edited by Eric Mc on Sunday 28th June 08:45
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