Aircraft for the price of a new Beemer...
Discussion
A bit of a debate started down the local last night after a flash bugger pulled up in a new Z4 wearing a pink shirt and shades 
If you were successful/rich enough why buy 'another' executive saloon , like a full spec 7 Series BMW?(assuming you already have other cars)
For the same kind of money (about £100,000GBP) you could buy a plane!
But what would YOU get for that amount?
I fancy one of these, and I'll have change for an Elise
An Antonov An-2 just because it looks like you could crash it and still take-off in it (and as its a soviet designing...you probably can
)
If you were successful/rich enough why buy 'another' executive saloon , like a full spec 7 Series BMW?(assuming you already have other cars)
For the same kind of money (about £100,000GBP) you could buy a plane!
But what would YOU get for that amount?
I fancy one of these, and I'll have change for an Elise
An Antonov An-2 just because it looks like you could crash it and still take-off in it (and as its a soviet designing...you probably can
)Yes.
There seem to be a lot of people who spend a fortune chopping and changing their various prestige sports cars, yet still appearing somewhat unfullfilled.
Whilst cars a fine for their day-to-day practicality and useability, IMO, many car owners should broaden their horizons and enjoy the wonderful world of aviation. There are penty of opportunities, whatever the budget, from gliding and microlights to helicopters and jets.
General aviation could do with more new, enthusiastic, participants. And, it's interesting that three of the most prominent 'petrolheads' share a passion for flying - Clarkson is an enthuisiast, May has a Champion Decathlon, and Hammond is training for his PPL(H). Can we expect 'Top Landing Gear'?
There seem to be a lot of people who spend a fortune chopping and changing their various prestige sports cars, yet still appearing somewhat unfullfilled.
Whilst cars a fine for their day-to-day practicality and useability, IMO, many car owners should broaden their horizons and enjoy the wonderful world of aviation. There are penty of opportunities, whatever the budget, from gliding and microlights to helicopters and jets.
General aviation could do with more new, enthusiastic, participants. And, it's interesting that three of the most prominent 'petrolheads' share a passion for flying - Clarkson is an enthuisiast, May has a Champion Decathlon, and Hammond is training for his PPL(H). Can we expect 'Top Landing Gear'?
Oily Nails said:
A bit of a debate started down the local last night after a flash bugger pulled up in a new Z4 wearing a pink shirt and shades
If you were successful/rich enough why buy 'another' executive saloon , like a full spec 7 Series BMW?(assuming you already have other cars)
For the same kind of money (about £100,000GBP) you could buy a plane!
But what would YOU get for that amount?
I fancy one of these, and I'll have change for an Elise
An Antonov An-2 just because it looks like you could crash it and still take-off in it (and as its a soviet designing...you probably can)
Maybe running costs would put you a plane especially the one above. A top 7 series BM would cost peanuts to run compared with even a cheap light aircraft.If you were successful/rich enough why buy 'another' executive saloon , like a full spec 7 Series BMW?(assuming you already have other cars)
For the same kind of money (about £100,000GBP) you could buy a plane!
But what would YOU get for that amount?
I fancy one of these, and I'll have change for an Elise
An Antonov An-2 just because it looks like you could crash it and still take-off in it (and as its a soviet designing...you probably can
)Oily Nails said:
A bit of a debate started down the local last night after a flash bugger pulled up in a new Z4 wearing a pink shirt and shades
If you were successful/rich enough why buy 'another' executive saloon , like a full spec 7 Series BMW?(assuming you already have other cars)
For the same kind of money (about £100,000GBP) you could buy a plane!
But what would YOU get for that amount?
I fancy one of these, and I'll have change for an Elise
An Antonov An-2 just because it looks like you could crash it and still take-off in it (and as its a soviet designing...you probably can)
Pumps out about 1000 horsepower, burns 300 litres of avgas an hour, and in that hour won't even get you 100nm from where you started, but great if someone else is picking up the bills.If you were successful/rich enough why buy 'another' executive saloon , like a full spec 7 Series BMW?(assuming you already have other cars)
For the same kind of money (about £100,000GBP) you could buy a plane!
But what would YOU get for that amount?
I fancy one of these, and I'll have change for an Elise
An Antonov An-2 just because it looks like you could crash it and still take-off in it (and as its a soviet designing...you probably can
)There a number of far nicer things you could spend your £100K on - some of them here:
http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/aircraft+eqpt-for-sal...
Oily Nails said:
I fancy one of these, and I'll have change for an Elise
An Antonov An-2 just because it looks like you could crash it and still take-off in it (and as its a soviet designing...you probably can
)He got through a lot of underpants....
Well I know a bloke at work who had a share in a Jet Provost, he said it eventually ended up costing all of his money beyond his mortgage and enough for surviving off Tesco value spam. That said he's an engineer so not quite paid mega bucks.
The maintenance is what kills you, once example he gave was that often it wouldn't start up due to some issue with its 1950's tech valve electronics. The solution was to remove the valves and tap them. But you aren't legally allowed to do that instead you had to pay £500 to call out a mechanic a distance of 100 yards to do a 30 second job.
The maintenance is what kills you, once example he gave was that often it wouldn't start up due to some issue with its 1950's tech valve electronics. The solution was to remove the valves and tap them. But you aren't legally allowed to do that instead you had to pay £500 to call out a mechanic a distance of 100 yards to do a 30 second job.
Talksteer said:
Well I know a bloke at work who had a share in a Jet Provost, he said it eventually ended up costing all of his money beyond his mortgage and enough for surviving off Tesco value spam. That said he's an engineer so not quite paid mega bucks.
The maintenance is what kills you, once example he gave was that often it wouldn't start up due to some issue with its 1950's tech valve electronics. The solution was to remove the valves and tap them. But you aren't legally allowed to do that instead you had to pay £500 to call out a mechanic a distance of 100 yards to do a 30 second job.
A mate of one of the chaps at the flying club used to own a Hunter. They spent £18k one weekend just on fuel!! The maintenance is what kills you, once example he gave was that often it wouldn't start up due to some issue with its 1950's tech valve electronics. The solution was to remove the valves and tap them. But you aren't legally allowed to do that instead you had to pay £500 to call out a mechanic a distance of 100 yards to do a 30 second job.
JW911 said:
For the price of a BMW M3, you can have a Yak-52. Turns upside down and burns less fuel than the An-2. Only 60 litres an hour. Running costs are a bit more though (our maintenance bill last year was around £15k).
Is £15k your average spend per year or was that including major work?60 litres per hour doesn't seem too bad. What does avgas cost? And at what cruising speed will it return 60 l/hr?
Lefty
Edited by Lefty Guns on Monday 13th July 10:10
Moose. said:
Cheapest way to own an aircraft is to make sure it's on an LAA Permit to Fly. That way you (with the assistance of an LAA engineer) can do all the maintenance yourself.
As for what to buy, I'd have a Vans RV-8 thanks
I had to google it but that's a lovely thing As for what to buy, I'd have a Vans RV-8 thanks
What's the significance of LAA? Is it classed as a microlight or something? And is that why you can maintain it yourself?
Lefty
Lefty Guns said:
JW911 said:
For the price of a BMW M3, you can have a Yak-52. Turns upside down and burns less fuel than the An-2. Only 60 litres an hour. Running costs are a bit more though (our maintenance bill last year was around £15k).
Is £15k your average spend per year or was that including major work?60 litres per hour doesn't seem too bad. What does avgas cost? And at what cruising speed will it return 60 l/hr?
Lefty
Edited by Lefty Guns on Monday 13th July 10:10
Dr Jekyll said:
Lefty Guns said:
JW911 said:
For the price of a BMW M3, you can have a Yak-52. Turns upside down and burns less fuel than the An-2. Only 60 litres an hour. Running costs are a bit more though (our maintenance bill last year was around £15k).
Is £15k your average spend per year or was that including major work?60 litres per hour doesn't seem too bad. What does avgas cost? And at what cruising speed will it return 60 l/hr?
Lefty
Edited by Lefty Guns on Monday 13th July 10:10
Lefty Guns said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Lefty Guns said:
JW911 said:
For the price of a BMW M3, you can have a Yak-52. Turns upside down and burns less fuel than the An-2. Only 60 litres an hour. Running costs are a bit more though (our maintenance bill last year was around £15k).
Is £15k your average spend per year or was that including major work?60 litres per hour doesn't seem too bad. What does avgas cost? And at what cruising speed will it return 60 l/hr?
Lefty
Edited by Lefty Guns on Monday 13th July 10:10
burn is more like 180l an hour, and at full-lunchtime-emergency 100% power even worse. The other feature of the Yak M-14P engine is that the mixture control is an automatic barometric affair, meaning you can't manually lean the mixture.
The year's maintenance bill JW911 was referring to actually came to just over £19K, but that was hugely inflated by the monumental £17K annual, which included the wings-off airframe overhaul required at this point - even so, the original quote
was for £4K. The sad fact is, some maintenance organisations are starting to price themselves out of the market, but recent changes in the maintenance regulations handed out by the CAA mean it's much harder to shop around between engineering
outfits, and they know this.
In the good old days, when you could run a Yak on the Russian register in the UK, maintenance was cheap as chips - literally.
In the late 1990's when our syndicate was set up, the group used to ship in a Lithuanian engineer with the right credentials, who would live in the hangar for a week to do the annual being fed a constant diet of fish-and-chips, and would complete the annual and sign-off for a couple of hundred quid - and everyone was happy.
Sadly, those days have gone.
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