experience of buying from an OPC....
Discussion
Having used AFN for servicing in the past and been very happy with the service, I had no qualms about buying a 993 from another OPC in a different part of the country - assuming that the service would be the same.
After collecting the car, and driving it the 150 or so miles home, I noted a number of problems such as rattles and creaks which should have been corrected pre-deilvery - but none so serious as to be a big problem. This began to change when I first cleaned the car and noticed that the alloy wheels - -rather than being fully refurbished - had been literally painted, and not very well at that on close inspection!
I then discovered that the car had never had a 24,000 mile service in all its 7 years (car had covered 22,500 miles at time of sale).
Despite, in my view, this constituting a very poor level of service, I might have been pursuaded to overlook this if corrective action had been forthcoming - instead I got an offer from the OPC to 'investigate' the wheels, contribute the difference in price between the small and large service - and that took them 2 months to think about. Moreover I was also told that Porsche GB would share their view. A few calls later to Porsche GB proved this not to be the case - result of which the dealer was instructed to correct the problems and carry out a free service.
But the story is not over - I contact the dealer to make arrangements and speak to the sales manager who is extremely sarcastic, and gives me further hassle - simply unbelievable!! I have to suggest that I will contact the CEO of their parent company (national PLC), who is an acquaitance, before I get a satisfactory outcome.
Like most people, I've got better things to do than rant and rave about poor service, but in this case I find the actions of the OPC simply amazing. Undoubtedly this is an isolated OPC (and possibly case), but it does go to show that it pays to check and re-check all the documentation and the car, even when the source is a company that its easy to assume you can trust.
Suffolk 911
After collecting the car, and driving it the 150 or so miles home, I noted a number of problems such as rattles and creaks which should have been corrected pre-deilvery - but none so serious as to be a big problem. This began to change when I first cleaned the car and noticed that the alloy wheels - -rather than being fully refurbished - had been literally painted, and not very well at that on close inspection!
I then discovered that the car had never had a 24,000 mile service in all its 7 years (car had covered 22,500 miles at time of sale).
Despite, in my view, this constituting a very poor level of service, I might have been pursuaded to overlook this if corrective action had been forthcoming - instead I got an offer from the OPC to 'investigate' the wheels, contribute the difference in price between the small and large service - and that took them 2 months to think about. Moreover I was also told that Porsche GB would share their view. A few calls later to Porsche GB proved this not to be the case - result of which the dealer was instructed to correct the problems and carry out a free service.
But the story is not over - I contact the dealer to make arrangements and speak to the sales manager who is extremely sarcastic, and gives me further hassle - simply unbelievable!! I have to suggest that I will contact the CEO of their parent company (national PLC), who is an acquaitance, before I get a satisfactory outcome.
Like most people, I've got better things to do than rant and rave about poor service, but in this case I find the actions of the OPC simply amazing. Undoubtedly this is an isolated OPC (and possibly case), but it does go to show that it pays to check and re-check all the documentation and the car, even when the source is a company that its easy to assume you can trust.
Suffolk 911
A sad but un avoidable fact that 993's are falling into the 'hassle' category for OPCs - they have lost most of their technicians who were factory trained on them to the independent specialists and they no longer see 993 owners as likely candidates for a trade-up to a new or nearly-new 996/997. At my last service I had a maddening conversation with the London OPC nearest my home when I clearly knew more about the tech spec of the 993 than the 'Service Manager'I was talking to!
My own approach is to get the OPC to do the bare minimum service to get an OPC stamp in the service book and then get a reputable specialist to do the real work. I went to school just outside Bury St Edmunds and still have a lot of contacts in the area and would recommend Autostrasse in Coggeshall.
My own approach is to get the OPC to do the bare minimum service to get an OPC stamp in the service book and then get a reputable specialist to do the real work. I went to school just outside Bury St Edmunds and still have a lot of contacts in the area and would recommend Autostrasse in Coggeshall.
So why in heaven's name do people value an OPC stamp in the service book when we all know that is not worth the ink it is printed with??
The lack of knowledge about the older cars is apalling. Take the 944S/S2/968 as a classic example. Every independent in the country knows that you have to replace the cam chains every 48000 miles otherwise the chain stretches, the cam sprockets wear and the top end destroys itself if you don't. Yet you don't find this in the OPC service requirements because if Porsche added it into the schedule it is an admission of liability to a possible problem, whereby imagine the impending law suits from owners who have been fleeced for £3500 at a time for new heads/cams/tensioners after their 4 pot 16 valver let go unexpectedly following a FPSH. Similarly every car should have a brake fluid change every two years, yet how many OPC's change the fluid in the clutch system (clutch "fade" is common problem on 964 & 993 due to old fluid)?
Porsche spend an awful lot on marketing in order to maintain the mith of a FPSH stamp added value, yet everyone I know of who has traded a car back into an OPC has been well and truly hoofed in the nuts on their trade in price. The OPC's are in a win/win situation, and it is examples like this that make matters worse.
Anyone who can afford £100 per hour will not be reading this and will not care about long term problems because the cars will be down the road before the warranty runs out. I therefore recommend that anyone buying the car just out of warranty do a bit of maths when chosing their service centre.
The lack of knowledge about the older cars is apalling. Take the 944S/S2/968 as a classic example. Every independent in the country knows that you have to replace the cam chains every 48000 miles otherwise the chain stretches, the cam sprockets wear and the top end destroys itself if you don't. Yet you don't find this in the OPC service requirements because if Porsche added it into the schedule it is an admission of liability to a possible problem, whereby imagine the impending law suits from owners who have been fleeced for £3500 at a time for new heads/cams/tensioners after their 4 pot 16 valver let go unexpectedly following a FPSH. Similarly every car should have a brake fluid change every two years, yet how many OPC's change the fluid in the clutch system (clutch "fade" is common problem on 964 & 993 due to old fluid)?
Porsche spend an awful lot on marketing in order to maintain the mith of a FPSH stamp added value, yet everyone I know of who has traded a car back into an OPC has been well and truly hoofed in the nuts on their trade in price. The OPC's are in a win/win situation, and it is examples like this that make matters worse.
Anyone who can afford £100 per hour will not be reading this and will not care about long term problems because the cars will be down the road before the warranty runs out. I therefore recommend that anyone buying the car just out of warranty do a bit of maths when chosing their service centre.
I really can`t see the point in getting a main dealer to do the "bare minimum" to put their stamp in the book. Either use them full on to do every last nut and bolt or don`t use them at all and use a good specialist of which their are many. Get the specialist to do the service, all the recomended extra work and put their stamp in the book, then be as proud of their work as they are. How would you lot feel if someone came to you and said they use one of your competitors to do the front end work and sign it off, but could you do a few odd jobs that want sorting out. You end up with a car that no one really knows or cares for properly, the main dealers just do the bare minimum knowing you`re not going to spend any cash on the old girl and the specialist just does the limited jobs you tell them to in spite of the fact that they may feel your money could be better spent elsewhere.
I see no advantage in a main dealer stamp in the service book. Certainly we would always give more for a properly maintained vehicle that shows few or no faults with specialist stamps than an M/D stamped car with lots of visible faults. If the two cars appeared equal we would pay exactly the same amount for them in spite of the fact that one of the owners will have paid a sight more to keep their car on the road than the other.
I should point out that although we sell Porsches we do no service work in house, we out-source everything.
Henry.
PS, if you`re looking for somewhere to go on your holls this year Thailand is definately the way to go the most lovely people in the world.
I see no advantage in a main dealer stamp in the service book. Certainly we would always give more for a properly maintained vehicle that shows few or no faults with specialist stamps than an M/D stamped car with lots of visible faults. If the two cars appeared equal we would pay exactly the same amount for them in spite of the fact that one of the owners will have paid a sight more to keep their car on the road than the other.
I should point out that although we sell Porsches we do no service work in house, we out-source everything.
Henry.
PS, if you`re looking for somewhere to go on your holls this year Thailand is definately the way to go the most lovely people in the world.
Don`t tarnish others with your demented and disgusting thoughts. Luckily not all of us sit by our computer screens all day, alone, tissues to the ready, waiting for the webcams to come on line !!
But yes you do get rather used to seeing fat old men spending their holls with pretty young thai girls !!
Henry
But yes you do get rather used to seeing fat old men spending their holls with pretty young thai girls !!
Henry
At the risk of being slightly outspoken. I do believe that there are a small percentage of buyers out there, that are prepared to pay a slight premium to buy a car with a full Porsche service history. Especially the older models.
These potential purchasers are not impulse buyers, they tend to be very careful and place FPSH quite high up their list of priorities. I met a couple when selling my `87 3.2 Carrera. When they examined the service booklet, no number of proven quality specilaists was enough to satisfy their requirement.
I asked both why the FPSH over specialist was so important? The answer in both cases was piece of mind.
These guys dont buy entirely on condition. They tend to believe that cosmetically a car can be tidied up, but mechanically there is more at risk and the Porsche service bit gives them comfort. I have had Porsches with both FPSH and good specialist histories and there is not much difference (if any).
If you are faced with two identical cars for sale at the same price, one with FPSH and the other FSH, its a no-brainer. But would I pay a small premium for FPSH...Mmmm maybe?
These potential purchasers are not impulse buyers, they tend to be very careful and place FPSH quite high up their list of priorities. I met a couple when selling my `87 3.2 Carrera. When they examined the service booklet, no number of proven quality specilaists was enough to satisfy their requirement.
I asked both why the FPSH over specialist was so important? The answer in both cases was piece of mind.
These guys dont buy entirely on condition. They tend to believe that cosmetically a car can be tidied up, but mechanically there is more at risk and the Porsche service bit gives them comfort. I have had Porsches with both FPSH and good specialist histories and there is not much difference (if any).
If you are faced with two identical cars for sale at the same price, one with FPSH and the other FSH, its a no-brainer. But would I pay a small premium for FPSH...Mmmm maybe?
...and that's what keeps the overpriced OPCs in business... but then I used to do exactly what Clapham 993 did (using Autostrasse for the main work and Lancaster Colchester to fill the windscreen washer bottle and stamp the book).
I had a mate who did a nice trade in stamping service books for his trader friends with his Mitusbishi main dealer service stamp...without the bills to support the stamps they're worthless in any case.
I had a mate who did a nice trade in stamping service books for his trader friends with his Mitusbishi main dealer service stamp...without the bills to support the stamps they're worthless in any case.
So what about our poor new customer who has had his 2.5 Boxster from new, supplier OPC maintained, who upon booking it in for an annual oil service was told that the intermediate bearings had collapsed and he needed a new engine as the parts are unobtainable? When questioned why a FPSH engine with a genuine sub 20,000 miles on the clock should fail, he was told tough, that's the way it is. Suffice to say that after a quote for £14,000 to repair it he told them to shove the quote where the sun don't shine. Then, once we collected the car, he was presented with a £600 bill for the service, which they completed in spite of the engine problem because he had authorised the work!!
I'm with Henry, there are a lot of people out there who do the job dilligently without taking the piss, just find someone who you trust and when the time comes to sell, pass it on to someone who appreciates a good car rather than a corporate image.
I'm with Henry, there are a lot of people out there who do the job dilligently without taking the piss, just find someone who you trust and when the time comes to sell, pass it on to someone who appreciates a good car rather than a corporate image.
Hardly in line with the rest of this thread but at my last service with the OPC Colchester I have a little good news to post. When delivering the car back from its last service they managed to chip the windscreen and without quibble offered to replace it. So there you are!
However, (there was always going to be one of those wasn’t there) only a couple of weeks ago I am pleased to report that family vario-rob have managed to fall out wholesale with them albeit it not a service issue. I may well be wrong (and normally am) but when trying to do a deal for my old boy I attempted to put his Merc CL500 into the deal, the car by the way has an absolute bottom book of £35k for it’s year and mileage. The salesman was rather taken by surprise when he was given ‘both barrels’ when he proudly reported that their best bid was £31k. Do also bear in mind that 15 miles up the road their Mercedes franchise would retail this same car for no less than £42k he was bluntly told to ‘make sex and travel’. Now I’m not normally in the habit of really loosing my rag but the when the sales manager called back to ’see what the problem was’ enough was enough, the order was cancelled and suffice to say my own quest for an early 996 turbo will be outside of the dealer network. Mind you at least this one didn’t call me mate like the berk who sold me my 993 from another OPC
However, (there was always going to be one of those wasn’t there) only a couple of weeks ago I am pleased to report that family vario-rob have managed to fall out wholesale with them albeit it not a service issue. I may well be wrong (and normally am) but when trying to do a deal for my old boy I attempted to put his Merc CL500 into the deal, the car by the way has an absolute bottom book of £35k for it’s year and mileage. The salesman was rather taken by surprise when he was given ‘both barrels’ when he proudly reported that their best bid was £31k. Do also bear in mind that 15 miles up the road their Mercedes franchise would retail this same car for no less than £42k he was bluntly told to ‘make sex and travel’. Now I’m not normally in the habit of really loosing my rag but the when the sales manager called back to ’see what the problem was’ enough was enough, the order was cancelled and suffice to say my own quest for an early 996 turbo will be outside of the dealer network. Mind you at least this one didn’t call me mate like the berk who sold me my 993 from another OPC
I'm not sure it's as black and white
When I had my 944 turbo I ended up taking to the OPC Colchester having been to Autostrasse
I got talking talking in the parts dept one day and a bloke in his forties was a mechanic who owned a 944 turbo, well he serviced it every time. I have an 8 hour tape from a bullet camera which showed me that they were very thorough and did all I asked. They also had a discount card for older porsches which reduced the price a lot
YMMV
When I had my 944 turbo I ended up taking to the OPC Colchester having been to Autostrasse
I got talking talking in the parts dept one day and a bloke in his forties was a mechanic who owned a 944 turbo, well he serviced it every time. I have an 8 hour tape from a bullet camera which showed me that they were very thorough and did all I asked. They also had a discount card for older porsches which reduced the price a lot
YMMV
One hundred pounds and hour.
Plus VAT.
And the young'uns don't know the fine points of a 993 anymore than the guy at Halfords - but they do have a good book on hand to check they don't screw up.
IMO, a Porsche in excess of 50k miles or 4 years old being serviced at an OPC is a colossal waste of money. Granted, they reduce the rates for older stuff ( never understood that- surely worskshop time is workshop time?) but it is still way too expensive.
The only downside is that good independent Porsche specialists are not evenly spread around the country. There are penty oop north and plenty in the M25 region. But very few in the SW, for example.
So the OPC's still got my business .
Shame I don't live nearer to Warrington ..
Plus VAT.
And the young'uns don't know the fine points of a 993 anymore than the guy at Halfords - but they do have a good book on hand to check they don't screw up.
IMO, a Porsche in excess of 50k miles or 4 years old being serviced at an OPC is a colossal waste of money. Granted, they reduce the rates for older stuff ( never understood that- surely worskshop time is workshop time?) but it is still way too expensive.
The only downside is that good independent Porsche specialists are not evenly spread around the country. There are penty oop north and plenty in the M25 region. But very few in the SW, for example.
So the OPC's still got my business .
Shame I don't live nearer to Warrington ..
We rarely use the main dealers for servicing. My last experience was thus :
Porsche Boxster - yes I know !! Main dealer - won`t say which one but in the south east. Service picked up the need for rear brake discs / pads amongst other things. Gave go ahead not expensive say £300 or so. In removing the brake calliper bolts they snapped one. Phone call from a service reception dude - your car needs two new rear hubs (assume the other side will snap off as well. Cost - circa £1,200. Now I hate doing this but we picked the car up on a trailer and not only had the other side removed without problem but also had the snapped bolt removed thus saving both hubs.
The Service accountant/ receptionist / teleworker who had been dealing with me assured me that they were more than used to working on old cars (a Boxster !!), and did loads of engine re-builds on 3.0 SC`s and the like so the techie working on the car would have first doused the bolts with a penetrating oil and worked the bolt etc. Yeh right brother, that`s why another garage managed to remove the remainder of the stud in spite of it having been sheered off by doing precisely that.
Time bonuses, air tools and the attitude of just order up another part on the list - that`s the problem.
I hope everyone realises that FPSH in an advert doesn`t mean every stamp is at the main dealers (in my experience). I do grant you that it can be hard for a new comer to distinguish between good and bad specialists, though a little homework especially on forums such as this should help enlighten.
As previously mentioned, when it comes to servicing I`m a punter just like you guys, the only difference being we have to buy 300 or so in a year rather than just 1 !!
On an older car I think using the M/Dealers means less is definately more. Our Cayenne will be going to them because no one else has the training or technology but the very people who are 3.2, 964, 993, even 996 and Boxster trained are often found at the specialists these days having moved from the dealerships.
Threatened court action at a european level against Porsche for withholding the necessary equipment / software to service the newer cars means that it is (I think) freely available - at a price - and so a good specialist will have the necessary tools.
A little inside info from speaking to those people who have moved from the main dealer to the specialist arena also makes for very intersting dinner conversations !
Keep a smile on your face and grease off your hands.
Henry
Porsche Boxster - yes I know !! Main dealer - won`t say which one but in the south east. Service picked up the need for rear brake discs / pads amongst other things. Gave go ahead not expensive say £300 or so. In removing the brake calliper bolts they snapped one. Phone call from a service reception dude - your car needs two new rear hubs (assume the other side will snap off as well. Cost - circa £1,200. Now I hate doing this but we picked the car up on a trailer and not only had the other side removed without problem but also had the snapped bolt removed thus saving both hubs.
The Service accountant/ receptionist / teleworker who had been dealing with me assured me that they were more than used to working on old cars (a Boxster !!), and did loads of engine re-builds on 3.0 SC`s and the like so the techie working on the car would have first doused the bolts with a penetrating oil and worked the bolt etc. Yeh right brother, that`s why another garage managed to remove the remainder of the stud in spite of it having been sheered off by doing precisely that.
Time bonuses, air tools and the attitude of just order up another part on the list - that`s the problem.
I hope everyone realises that FPSH in an advert doesn`t mean every stamp is at the main dealers (in my experience). I do grant you that it can be hard for a new comer to distinguish between good and bad specialists, though a little homework especially on forums such as this should help enlighten.
As previously mentioned, when it comes to servicing I`m a punter just like you guys, the only difference being we have to buy 300 or so in a year rather than just 1 !!
On an older car I think using the M/Dealers means less is definately more. Our Cayenne will be going to them because no one else has the training or technology but the very people who are 3.2, 964, 993, even 996 and Boxster trained are often found at the specialists these days having moved from the dealerships.
Threatened court action at a european level against Porsche for withholding the necessary equipment / software to service the newer cars means that it is (I think) freely available - at a price - and so a good specialist will have the necessary tools.
A little inside info from speaking to those people who have moved from the main dealer to the specialist arena also makes for very intersting dinner conversations !
Keep a smile on your face and grease off your hands.
Henry
I'm with Colin 9M & Henry on this. OPC's prefer newer cars that are owned by corporations/lease co's etc
1] As the drivers quibble less at the costs presented.
2] Newer cars require more repetative tasks such as servicing & less repairs = less training = more hours sold = more profit.
3]Older cars require broader & deeper parts inventory to be carried. = less stock turn = more stocking charges=less profit.
4] Skill bleed is a problem to OPC's as real technicians like to use their skills & talents. With such high levels of repetative tasks on new cars the skills die out. So an ever increasing number leave only to pop up at forward thinking independants
5] Almost no chance of an owner of a 993 becoming a sales prospect for a new or nearly new 996 or soon to be 997. Just wait early 996 owners will all be in the same boat.
So in conclusion, it is important to see a book full of OPC stamps validated by the actual invoices for a cars first 2 or possibly 3 years. Thereafter a respected independant carries as much if not more kudos in my opinion. Quality will outweigh quantity every time. So lots of OPC stamps do not neccesarily mean a good car.
This ramble was brought to you by:-
UKT Specialist Cars
Allan
>> Edited by uktrucks on Friday 5th March 11:44
1] As the drivers quibble less at the costs presented.
2] Newer cars require more repetative tasks such as servicing & less repairs = less training = more hours sold = more profit.
3]Older cars require broader & deeper parts inventory to be carried. = less stock turn = more stocking charges=less profit.
4] Skill bleed is a problem to OPC's as real technicians like to use their skills & talents. With such high levels of repetative tasks on new cars the skills die out. So an ever increasing number leave only to pop up at forward thinking independants
5] Almost no chance of an owner of a 993 becoming a sales prospect for a new or nearly new 996 or soon to be 997. Just wait early 996 owners will all be in the same boat.
So in conclusion, it is important to see a book full of OPC stamps validated by the actual invoices for a cars first 2 or possibly 3 years. Thereafter a respected independant carries as much if not more kudos in my opinion. Quality will outweigh quantity every time. So lots of OPC stamps do not neccesarily mean a good car.
This ramble was brought to you by:-
UKT Specialist Cars
Allan
>> Edited by uktrucks on Friday 5th March 11:44
Vario-Rob said:
The salesman was rather taken by surprise when he was given ‘both barrels’ when he proudly reported that their best bid was £31k.
...
he was bluntly told to ‘make sex and travel’.
Was there really any need to be rude like that? If they don't offer you what you want, then you go elsewhere. Seems a bit harsh telling someone to "go forth and multiply" because they offer you £4 K less than you think your car is worth.
Tell me about it, thank god we always offer massive amounts of money for cars or people would be rude to us as well!!!
The trick is to negotiate, educate the brother, point out the error of his ways and ask him why the figure is so little when the same car is for sale in group for £10k more.
Take a leaf out of my book, be polite. Rudeness gets you no where.
Thank you all very much for taking the time to read this. I appreciate it`s only my view and others may have equally valid and worthwhile opinions.
Your humble servant. Henry.
The trick is to negotiate, educate the brother, point out the error of his ways and ask him why the figure is so little when the same car is for sale in group for £10k more.
Take a leaf out of my book, be polite. Rudeness gets you no where.
Thank you all very much for taking the time to read this. I appreciate it`s only my view and others may have equally valid and worthwhile opinions.
Your humble servant. Henry.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff