Modifications - for insurance purposes.

[So]

Insurers request that all mods are disclosed. However, how far does that go?

I think back to new cars I've bought where the dealership has changed the wheels for better ones. Correct for the car, but better ones than it left the factory with. Is it a mod?

Body graphics. For example Mini chequered roof. Available from new, but perhaps added later. Mod?

I have had cars from new that the dealership had retro-fitted things to and I didn't realise until I re-sold the car. I suppose technically they would be disclosable, but I didn't know they were non-factory.

Sure, if I fit some OZ wheels, bigger brakes and fat exhaust I know they are mods and would disclose them. I am not sure that I would even think to disclose after-market rear privacy glass, side steps or graphics. But could it give insurers scope to be tricky, even if I was unaware that these things were not standard, despite being a standard option.

[So]

Mr Tidy said:

It's not easy for sure!

My current BMW Z4 Coupe has been retro-fitted with cruise control, cup-holders and rear parking sensors - but they were all options when the car was built. So are they modifications or not? I only know because I checked the OEM spec, but how many people do that?

I declared a custom cat-back exhaust, different Z4 wheels and a non-standard gear-knob to my current insurer and they were fine with all of those.

Seems a bit of a minefield on an older car though!

If you don't declare them, and your cup holders cause a serious accident, your insurer may deny the claim.

[So]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

So said:

Mr Tidy said:

It's not easy for sure!

My current BMW Z4 Coupe has been retro-fitted with cruise control, cup-holders and rear parking sensors - but they were all options when the car was built. So are they modifications or not? I only know because I checked the OEM spec, but how many people do that?

I declared a custom cat-back exhaust, different Z4 wheels and a non-standard gear-knob to my current insurer and they were fine with all of those.

Seems a bit of a minefield on an older car though!

If you don't declare them, and your cup holders cause a serious accident, your insurer may deny the claim.

Forgetting about cup holders, but as a general principle, if you fail to declare something, a claim can be rejected even if the claim has nothing to do with what you failed to declare.

I am not a lawyer, but your thinking is "they wouldn't have insured if they had known the full picture". I very much doubt an insurer would find a sympathetic ear, were they to try to persuade a judge that they have invalidated a claim due to undeclared cup holders.

[So]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

So said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

So said:

Mr Tidy said:

It's not easy for sure!

My current BMW Z4 Coupe has been retro-fitted with cruise control, cup-holders and rear parking sensors - but they were all options when the car was built. So are they modifications or not? I only know because I checked the OEM spec, but how many people do that?

I declared a custom cat-back exhaust, different Z4 wheels and a non-standard gear-knob to my current insurer and they were fine with all of those.

Seems a bit of a minefield on an older car though!

If you don't declare them, and your cup holders cause a serious accident, your insurer may deny the claim.

Forgetting about cup holders, but as a general principle, if you fail to declare something, a claim can be rejected even if the claim has nothing to do with what you failed to declare.

I am not a lawyer, but your thinking is "they wouldn't have insured if they had known the full picture". I very much doubt an insurer would find a sympathetic ear, were they to try to persuade a judge that they have invalidated a claim due to undeclared cup holders.

I did say "forgetting about cup holders". The point I was making is that some people think that you can fail to disclose or lie to insurers, and it can only come back to bite you if any subsequent claim is related to the non disclosure or the lie. That isn't the case.

But how modified would a car need to be for an insurer not to insure? I can see your point if an insurer genuinely would not have insured at any price, but where they would have insured I intuitively don’t see how they could later decline a claim on an irrelevance.

I would be interested to hear from someone genuinely in the know though.

[So]

Lindun said:

So said:

But how modified would a car need to be for an insurer not to insure? I can see your point if an insurer genuinely would not have insured at any price, but where they would have insured I intuitively don’t see how they could later decline a claim on an irrelevance.

I would be interested to hear from someone genuinely in the know though.

They have a clear set of underwriting criteria. If they can show that the car falls outside this then it’s fine. They decide what they will insure. One might refuse any car with metallic paint. It’s their choice.

Sure.

But if for example you've got a Mini and the wheels on it are genuine Mini, but not the ones it left the factory with. Someone has added genuine Mini spotlights and the chequerboard roof. You don't check these things and then have an accident because someone pulls out in front of you. Are you suggesting the insurer will seek to decline the claim?

I am fairly confident that the insurer would have insured the car had they known about the modifications, albeit they may have wanted a small premium increase. So I would not expect them to try to decline to pay..

[So]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

So said:

But how modified would a car need to be for an insurer not to insure? I can see your point if an insurer genuinely would not have insured at any price, but where they would have insured I intuitively don’t see how they could later decline a claim on an irrelevance.

I would be interested to hear from someone genuinely in the know though.

I wasn't addressing that issue. I was just saying that some people are under the impression that if a claim is unrelated to the non disclosure, the insurer is powerless to take any action. That isn't true.

If you fail to disclose a speeding conviction, and your car is stolen, then if the insurance company don't insure anyone with speeding convictions, or they do but not if they drive your car, or are your age, then they can throw your claim out.

In the context of this thread that isn't really relevant. The thread is really about minor modifications that an owner may or may not know about. Not a situation where a modification makes the vehicle uninsurable.