Audi, why are they so flat footed in the chassis dept ?
Discussion
Ok, now I've got your attention . . . . .
Over the past twelve months I'd driven several hot (warmish ?) Audi's. Those being an S3 (2009) RS4 2007 (V8 NA) and two TTRS's (a 2013 and a 2011)
All have cracking engines, all also have what can only be described as hopeless, flat footed, dull, unengaging handling along with steering lacking in feel/feedback/tactility.
I'm a BMW and Porsche man, and intrigued how Audi manage to get it so "wrong" compared with their German compatriots ?
The RS4 is at an obvious disadvantage with its large, heavy V8 placed between the headlamps. Make no mistake, with a decent exhaust, that V8 is indeed an awesome engine. But the handling compared with something like an E46 CSL is utterly "uninspiring".
The S3, with it's DSG 'box was a superb weapon for traversing A & B roads quickly, but again its chassis was oh so dull and lacking in both tactility or engagement.
The TTRS ? What an engine, again paired with a DSG 'box in both the examples I drove. The first example (a 2013 dealer demo with 3k miles) was faaaaast, but unless you drove it at massive speed, it felt very efficient (not a bad thing) but the steering was numb and lacking any real kind of feel or feedback.
The second example I drove a couple of weeks ago (a 2011 car) had done a mere 19K miles. It too felt totally lacking in the steering feel department. Add in dampers that felt like they weren't and springs which felt like they were struggling to support the car, and I walked away totally unimpressed.
I jumped back into my 2007 BMW 335D Sport (now on 128K miles) and marvelled at the weighty, feelsome steering. This in direct contrast to the TTRS's steering, which I turned whilst waiting at some traffic lights, only to find it appeared to have no weighting (I could turn the wheel with my little finger such was the lack of weight on centre and either side) Try doing the same in the 335D and you'll need several fingers and a lot more heft . . . .
The TTRS runs a "square" wheel/tyre setup (9" wide wheels and 255 width tyres both front
and rear. Whilst I appreciate the four wheel drive system fitted to the RS is Haldex based (and thus not a true full time four wheel drive system) surely tyres that size (or the Audi's geometry ?) would only contribute to the numb/dull, lifeless steering feel ?
I should say that my point of reference is the BMW 1 M coupe, a car praised in just about every press review written. I've owned two of them and loved every second spent behind the wheel.
The 1M coupe runs 245 section front tyres, along with a steering rack some 3/4 turn quicker than the Audis. The springs and damper rates felt so much better judged than the frankly hopeless setups on the Audis.
Any chassis engineers out there that can explain why Audi are so hopeless at engineering feelsome steering/chassis setups ? Or indeed what it is specifically that makes their chassis feel so flatfooted and their steering so numb (scrub radius etc) ?
Thanks in advance.
Over the past twelve months I'd driven several hot (warmish ?) Audi's. Those being an S3 (2009) RS4 2007 (V8 NA) and two TTRS's (a 2013 and a 2011)
All have cracking engines, all also have what can only be described as hopeless, flat footed, dull, unengaging handling along with steering lacking in feel/feedback/tactility.
I'm a BMW and Porsche man, and intrigued how Audi manage to get it so "wrong" compared with their German compatriots ?
The RS4 is at an obvious disadvantage with its large, heavy V8 placed between the headlamps. Make no mistake, with a decent exhaust, that V8 is indeed an awesome engine. But the handling compared with something like an E46 CSL is utterly "uninspiring".
The S3, with it's DSG 'box was a superb weapon for traversing A & B roads quickly, but again its chassis was oh so dull and lacking in both tactility or engagement.
The TTRS ? What an engine, again paired with a DSG 'box in both the examples I drove. The first example (a 2013 dealer demo with 3k miles) was faaaaast, but unless you drove it at massive speed, it felt very efficient (not a bad thing) but the steering was numb and lacking any real kind of feel or feedback.
The second example I drove a couple of weeks ago (a 2011 car) had done a mere 19K miles. It too felt totally lacking in the steering feel department. Add in dampers that felt like they weren't and springs which felt like they were struggling to support the car, and I walked away totally unimpressed.
I jumped back into my 2007 BMW 335D Sport (now on 128K miles) and marvelled at the weighty, feelsome steering. This in direct contrast to the TTRS's steering, which I turned whilst waiting at some traffic lights, only to find it appeared to have no weighting (I could turn the wheel with my little finger such was the lack of weight on centre and either side) Try doing the same in the 335D and you'll need several fingers and a lot more heft . . . .
The TTRS runs a "square" wheel/tyre setup (9" wide wheels and 255 width tyres both front
and rear. Whilst I appreciate the four wheel drive system fitted to the RS is Haldex based (and thus not a true full time four wheel drive system) surely tyres that size (or the Audi's geometry ?) would only contribute to the numb/dull, lifeless steering feel ?I should say that my point of reference is the BMW 1 M coupe, a car praised in just about every press review written. I've owned two of them and loved every second spent behind the wheel.
The 1M coupe runs 245 section front tyres, along with a steering rack some 3/4 turn quicker than the Audis. The springs and damper rates felt so much better judged than the frankly hopeless setups on the Audis.
Any chassis engineers out there that can explain why Audi are so hopeless at engineering feelsome steering/chassis setups ? Or indeed what it is specifically that makes their chassis feel so flatfooted and their steering so numb (scrub radius etc) ?
Thanks in advance.
Gassing Station | Suspension, Brakes & Tyres | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff