Discussion
Pvapour said:
I've sat around 15-16% for the last 25 odd years tbh Halb, before those years i dropped a few times to 10% for comps (was never ripped, more the arnie look)
The last 12 months though ive stuck at 12% since i dropped the fat for an obstacle course race last year.
I dont personaly think you need to bulk up to gain muscle mass itself but i do think bulking helps prevent injury while pushing weight limits to gain muscle, i know when i lean out i'm far more prone to injuries.
It is PeeVapour in my head as it was meant to be PetrolVapour, like the iterpratations more though
I used 5:2 fasting to drop fat btw or more accurately 3:1 - 2:1 = 7 days. (3000k deficit on fast days = 1lb fat, but still try for 100g of protein)
Well it's still Pour va vour in my head, it's staying. The last 12 months though ive stuck at 12% since i dropped the fat for an obstacle course race last year.
I dont personaly think you need to bulk up to gain muscle mass itself but i do think bulking helps prevent injury while pushing weight limits to gain muscle, i know when i lean out i'm far more prone to injuries.
It is PeeVapour in my head as it was meant to be PetrolVapour, like the iterpratations more though
I used 5:2 fasting to drop fat btw or more accurately 3:1 - 2:1 = 7 days. (3000k deficit on fast days = 1lb fat, but still try for 100g of protein)
I agree about the listmaking goal oriented thing. I think that's why I am good at it.
Over Hogswatch-Xmas period, I stopped the low cal thing and ate to 'maintenance' cals, according to MFP. It was a big jump, and even went over a few times. I wasn't too fussed since I had this goal of cutting in the new year. Put on over 10lbs for my 'dry' Monday morning weight but I've not blimped, protein and training were still big features, a few plateaus were nudged aside.
So now I have roughly the same routine I have cut back to three basic weight days, and maybe I'll throw in some circuit style days too. I have a basic goal of running the 10k for under 50mins as the Ultimate Warrior. SO this requires a healthy running level plus low bodyfat.
I plan to maintain all weight I'm shifting, perhaps even drop off a few accessory exercises and slowly build up the cardio, bit of an issue since I've niggled mu ankle again, so I did low impact stairmaster/rowing today.
These are some of my thoughts. Seeing as I can't run more than once a week at the moment, I will throw in stuff like the bear and other crossfit style complexes and circuits.
I train fasted about half/half, and take BCAA when I do, along with cherryactive or the blueberry version (some magnesium and beta-alaline also goes in). On MFP I've set it to pound loss a week, that should be sedate enough to not lose muscle? From what I've read on cutting, heavy resistance will help this. Another article (examin.com) I read also talked about 40g of protein in the hour afterwards, which won't harm.
Erm, I had a few more things, but no rush, t 10k is in May.
I do recall you stating, '2 x 500mg L-Arginine / 1 x 500mg L-Ornithine once a day for 8 weeks.', was this for cutting or building or...?
Pvapour said:
Quite sad the life of a trainer sometimes, your christmas pretty much echoed mine, i only added 3 or 4lbs though.
You're in the same place i was last year, be carefull with the injury, i picked one up running to much in prep and still have it now which means a max run of 4 miles once a week, will get to some physio this year as it'll never reapir as i have to walk 50 miles a week just for dog and work nevermind training..
Pound loss a week is what i did, seemed pretty easy to loose and made it easy to keep there for rest of year, fasting was a first for me and made the loss very manageable (maybe an easier for us habbit formers?) so thumbs up there to, branch chain addition?? Educate me i ate more appricots and mushrooms to counteract negative cortisol effects (magnesium from memory) i get so pumped fasting you wouldnt beleive, the adrenalin surge i get is unreal and the energy for fuel is very addictive and usefull, love endurance stuff in this state but the weights are a no no, flat as a pancake!
'Plan to maintain weight i'm shifting' ie lift same weights to use as a measure for if you're loosing muscle mass or not? I did the same, worked a treat, at 1lb fat loss a week you should be fine, weights on the day your body is recarbing makes for great weight workouts, crossfit stuff was practised here to (no bear stuff though, thats covered in my work)
40g within hr of workout for protein is good, guessing you do fruit within 20mins of workout to? You dont get the post workout dip in energy then (if you do) 20g of protein with fruit 1.5hrs before workout Has always been very good for me, migth be worth trying as 40g after can be a bit of a big digest and inconvenient in quntity terms.
I do still practice the arg & Orn in the quantites you mention (free form) in times of need to raise ailing testesterone levels, times of need being, loosing fat (helps muscle mass/strength retention) or in winter months when the globe isnt around..
You're pretty on the money halb as far as my experience goes, you're far from beginers knowledge i think, have you studied your macros and intolerances? Cant imagine you havent considering your actions thus far.
I wont normaly be typing this much by the way, been travelling the last few days to kill some zombies for a christmas pressent (Amongst other things) so have lots of time to read and type, not usual...
I er, have a tendency to overdo things, might as well get hanged for a sheep as a lamb. I can get quite perverse at times. You're in the same place i was last year, be carefull with the injury, i picked one up running to much in prep and still have it now which means a max run of 4 miles once a week, will get to some physio this year as it'll never reapir as i have to walk 50 miles a week just for dog and work nevermind training..
Pound loss a week is what i did, seemed pretty easy to loose and made it easy to keep there for rest of year, fasting was a first for me and made the loss very manageable (maybe an easier for us habbit formers?) so thumbs up there to, branch chain addition?? Educate me
i ate more appricots and mushrooms to counteract negative cortisol effects (magnesium from memory) i get so pumped fasting you wouldnt beleive, the adrenalin surge i get is unreal and the energy for fuel is very addictive and usefull, love endurance stuff in this state but the weights are a no no, flat as a pancake!'Plan to maintain weight i'm shifting' ie lift same weights to use as a measure for if you're loosing muscle mass or not? I did the same, worked a treat, at 1lb fat loss a week you should be fine, weights on the day your body is recarbing makes for great weight workouts, crossfit stuff was practised here to (no bear stuff though, thats covered in my work
)40g within hr of workout for protein is good, guessing you do fruit within 20mins of workout to? You dont get the post workout dip in energy then (if you do) 20g of protein with fruit 1.5hrs before workout Has always been very good for me, migth be worth trying as 40g after can be a bit of a big digest and inconvenient in quntity terms.
I do still practice the arg & Orn in the quantites you mention (free form) in times of need to raise ailing testesterone levels, times of need being, loosing fat (helps muscle mass/strength retention) or in winter months when the globe isnt around..
You're pretty on the money halb as far as my experience goes, you're far from beginers knowledge i think, have you studied your macros and intolerances? Cant imagine you havent considering your actions thus far.
I wont normaly be typing this much by the way, been travelling the last few days to kill some zombies for a christmas pressent (Amongst other things) so have lots of time to read and type, not usual...
Yeah, I really do need to stop over doing it, I was fine till I was silly. Cardio today was good though, stairmaster and rower, ankle tonight is only in the 3/10 annoying range.
Well when I first got into fasting, the 16/8 version, from Leangains I was on it pretty keen, I did take Branch Chain Amino Acids hoping it would help. When I first started training fasted I was amazed at the energy I felt, it was new. I was on it pretty rigidly back then and probably got down to around 12%bf, with macros/16/8/training all working in sync. I don't recall reliving the the pep of those early months, but I wonder if I have become accustomed to it. Some recent reading has criticized the use of BCAA, on how it affects insulin, but the effect may be negligible, plus it has good effects for DOMs I've read, which is nice.
So yeahg, I understand that 'surge' feeling, or did. Yeah, what I meant was to keep all weight on the machines at the same I(back is on max anyway), I decided to try and push for benchmarks up to the new year what with stuffing my face with cake everyday, and then reduce food and maintain iron shifted, and bring down recovery time as I...if I improve.
The bulk of my program has bene built around this.
https://breakingmuscle.com/fuel/intermittent-fasti...
SO the windows on breaks are variable, so when I hit the top end of my rep window, I'll reduce the recovery time.
e.g.
Pulldowns are 4 x 6 - 10, 3 minute rest. When I can hit 4 sets of 10 and it feels good, maybe even add an extra rep, I'll take it down to 2:30 rest, what do you think?
https://examine.com/nutrition/second-look-at-prote...
That's the article on 40g as opposed to 20g, I've found some really tasty cookies that are 40g. I do like to take a banana right after, the potassium and other stuff. I still do have quite a bit of coconut water, and just bought a tub of lovely peanut butter, it was on offer inn Tesco.
Funnily enough it was Joe's thread that made me relook at my macros. I will say that trying to hit 200g a day is an effort, and high is in the 240 zone, which seems unsatisfactory from a life (tasty) point of view, though I have been experimenting with cookies/bars recently and have found some amazing flavours (Robert Irvine fortifix, Lenny & Larry and Musclepharm combat crunch...amazing!!) Also bought some casesin to help with bedtime sweet tooth.
https://healthyeater.com/flexible-dieting-calculat...
But I haven't looked at my intolerances! Completely bypassed me.
I know a leetle bit, but as I said in Joe's thread, every day is a learning day, and pooling experience leads to further knowledge. It's also nice to reassure, not been 'on it' properly for over a year.
I'll add arg & Orn when I get some cash, pretty strapped at the moment.
I probably won't normally be asking this much.
ZOmbies are human too you know, or were human, can't we all just get along.
Pvapour said:
Allot of cookies mentioned in there, ho much sugar in these things? Is this where most of your carb macros are coming from? What's the protein quality like in there? I dont eat that sort of thing as like to go as un-processed as possible.
I know you mentioned 'bear' method for training, does that mean some free weights are being used? As you mention machines allot and although some resistance is better than none (think theyre good for injuries / rehab) they leave essential areas of muscle development untouched, you'll look ok but be more prone to injury imo.
Re rest periods, my rest periods are 1-1:30 secs, that latter used at lower rep (heavier) sets but the time for rests is more related to HR recovery, unless you Hr had dropped to aound 90bpm its little point in kicking off on the next set, i actually used weight training to up my cardio over a number of years (as i wasnt bothered about gaining more muscle) so this has left me with a very good recovery rate on strength driven excercises, was a breeze on the obstacles at race i did, running wasnt
I wouldnt advise those rest peiods for muscle gains (just to clarify) but might be usefull considering you current goals, 10k could do some serious long term damage to an ankle by the way, mine was only 9k but with obstacles in between, did you say ironman? Guessing thats a the three disciplines if you did, whiich i guess would be fine if so.
I guess, possibly a good portion of my carbs come from there. Post-Xmas I'm back to greens and purples. I don't eat rice or pasta, I don't like it, save for rice pudding (the only thing rice should be utilised for) and that's a treat. So meal portion majority wise, I try and make them come from meals, but these are low gram in weight, so one bar can equal them roughly. My regulars being; spinach, brussel sprouts, rocket, celery, beetroot, cauliflower, broccoli. I have chips on a FRiday, from chippy. I know you mentioned 'bear' method for training, does that mean some free weights are being used? As you mention machines allot and although some resistance is better than none (think theyre good for injuries / rehab) they leave essential areas of muscle development untouched, you'll look ok but be more prone to injury imo.
Re rest periods, my rest periods are 1-1:30 secs, that latter used at lower rep (heavier) sets but the time for rests is more related to HR recovery, unless you Hr had dropped to aound 90bpm its little point in kicking off on the next set, i actually used weight training to up my cardio over a number of years (as i wasnt bothered about gaining more muscle) so this has left me with a very good recovery rate on strength driven excercises, was a breeze on the obstacles at race i did, running wasnt
I wouldnt advise those rest peiods for muscle gains (just to clarify) but might be usefull considering you current goals, 10k could do some serious long term damage to an ankle by the way, mine was only 9k but with obstacles in between, did you say ironman? Guessing thats a the three disciplines if you did, whiich i guess would be fine if so.
I've got three examples in front of me;
myprotein protein cookie chocolate orange flavour; 320 kcal, carb 20 (sugar 7g), fat 10g, protein 38g, I believe this is good quality.
Robert Irvine's Fitcrunch cookie dough; 380 kcal, carb 25 (sugar 6g, sugar alcohol 16g), fat 16g (140kcal), protein 30g. THis one is a luxury item and pretty high quality, for when I'm flush.
My Home bargains £1 bar; Profirst protein bar strawberry; 199kcal, 19g carb (sugar 2g, polyols 14g), protein 21g. These are the cheap ones.
My US mate sends me quality items from the USA sometimes (Lenny and LArry's stuff, expensive but lovely) and her dad is an old school septuagenarian lifter. To the level he times his pills/vitamins not to clash since some vits can hinder uptake of others, he is in amazing shape. She's a good judge of quality.
I did a lot of searching on bars and whey. I did have PInk Sun whey (grass fed cows, freeze not heat processed) but that has now run out, and my bars are from when I was flush, they're a nice thing of an evening when the sweet tooth arrives. Though I like to go as unprocessed as possible for everything else, I do like Fage/Arla quark/yoghurt.
Yes, this is the bear,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_nBgT6bGI8
It's a killer, all over, especially lungs.
Yes, I had to use machines, it's been a difficult year after my injury (pec tear), mentally, physically, emotionally
, and I started back on weights in May, on one bar (2.3kgish?? ) on every machine. Now I've got a bit of strength back, I've re-added a few bar exercises, and I know! I max out on all back machines but one day of deadlifts (I'v not deadlifted since Nov 2015) and muscles in my back were feeling it that were never touched by rows/pulldowns, along with free standing presses as opposed to shoulder press.At the moment it'll be a combo of machines and bar since; safety, aesthetics, functionality all have to be juggled, and really, right now, aesthetics are top marginally.
The 10k is the Manchester one, it's pretty flat. Ran it in 51 in 2014, 59 last year after a two months training. I run it for Alzheimer's, have done for the past 9 years, I'll have to judge and reassess regularly to see how I'm getting on. Ultimately, I could drop out, we;ll see.
Pvapour said:
man you like your processed stuff! don't know why but I've always preferred to get my protein from natural sources as best i can, i have a whey drink a day though otherwise its just too hard getting the Gs in
like the bear stuff, i'll do some of that to mix things up, got be outside though so will wait till sun comes out, we have a big concrete area outside our gym so be great getting out there in the fresh air
It probably looks like I'm processed mad...I'm actually quite unprocessed focus. I mostly eat raw veg or steamed. I do eat meat, though at times very little meat, I love eggs and fish.like the bear stuff, i'll do some of that to mix things up, got be outside though so will wait till sun comes out, we have a big concrete area outside our gym so be great getting out there in the fresh air
Halb said:
Do you ever use, ZMA, PP?
stop talking in code man! you know i'm a neanderthal !I was flush and love the protein bars, but now I am poor and thus, have bought some large tubs of whey and casein. I would say thevast bulk of my diet is unprocessed, with cheese, skyr quark/yoghurt and my protein 'extras' sorting out the processed remainder.
zinc, magnesium and vit b6 supplement. I bought some optimum nutrition caps, but then my ablutions went weird, I knocked them on the head...I have since posting, read that taking them with food at night may resolve the toilet issues. I haven't attempted it yet.
Pvapour said:
Halb said:
PP, I've forgotten, what do you take the 2 x 500mg L-Arginine / 1 x 500mg L-Ornithine for?
Halb said:
I retain good info
my fasting helps my memory!
For testosterone boost
yeah, 2 x 500mg arg / 1 x 500mg orn (free form)
I knew you;d mention that...I was erm...testing you...well done....
Was looking at natural endogenous ways to boost and I sorta remembered...
This vid popped up on my feed after watching one on HRT
♂ 4 Clinically Proven Ways To Increase Your Testosterone Levels, Naturally
https://youtu.be/AbNyVIqZ36s7 mins
Ullo!
Have you ever done the 36 eggs a day thing?
Why 36 eggs is Better than a Steroid Cycle. The 3 Dozen Eggs a Day Diet by Vince Gironda
Golden Era Bookworm Published on 5 Sep 2018
https://youtu.be/SQ6xtn1aiP0
Have you ever done the 36 eggs a day thing?
Why 36 eggs is Better than a Steroid Cycle. The 3 Dozen Eggs a Day Diet by Vince Gironda
Golden Era Bookworm Published on 5 Sep 2018
https://youtu.be/SQ6xtn1aiP0
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