RE: Dany Bahar suspended
Monday 28th May 2012
Could the controversial reign of Lotus boss Dany Bahar coming to an abrupt end? With no shortage of dramatic headlines and speculation about the iconic brand's future and Bahar's ambitious plans the story took another twist last night with news that DRB-Hicom, Lotus's new owner, has suspended Bahar.
Things have been looking up lately car-wise
Dany Bahar suspended
More uncertainty at Hethel as Lotus owners DRB-Hicom suspend Dany Bahar
More diligent and early rising newsdesks than PH's, mainstream media included, have been reporting in some detail about Bahar's suspension but it seems the move came suddenly and without any warning whatsoever. Quoting a DRB-Hicom spokesperson the Norfolk Eastern Daily Press said "As a result of a number of media inquiries, Group Lotus plc ("Lotus") can today confirm that, following an operational review, chief executive Dany Bahar has been temporarily suspended from his role to facilitate an investigation into a complaint about his conduct made by Lotus' penultimate parent company, DRB-Hicom Berhad."
Things have been looking up lately car-wise
DRB-Hicom has stressed 'business as usual', even though it quite clearly isn't, and has parachuted in a group of its own executives to handle the day-to-day running of Lotus in Bahar's absence.
It's too early to say if this is likely to be a permanent move but, if it were, it's safe to say many of Lotus's more passionate fans would not be sad to see Bahar leave, his tenure at Hethel the cause of no little controversy. Thankfully, and of late, we have at least seen evidence that the firm still has the ability to build great cars, the Exige S and Elise S we drove recently proof of that.
Discussion
mrclav said:
No need to patronise, I obviously know the story and while we're here let's get something straight - Mr. Dean is primarily known as an extremely successful music producer before being known as a rapper and he is actually a car fanatic, basically a sort of hip-hop version of Jay Kay. So again I ask, what's your problem with him? Has he mis-appropriated Lotus funds like Mr. Bahar appears to have done?
He's styled an Evora (which I think is done in quite good taste) and is basically being paid to make sure he puts Lotus cars in his music videos and does the same for his friends in the industry - it's a smart strategy really. Hip hop has an impact on global pop culture that is startling at times, whether you want to accept it or it - if you know what the word 'bling' means, you prove this point.
I always hear people like you talking about how you don't want rappers/drug-dealers/chavs/whatever-other-boring-stereotype-you-can-mention (aka those who actually have money to afford one) to buy Lotus cars because apparently doing so damages the precious image of the brand not to mention causing Colin Chapman to spin in his grave but I want to know who you think SHOULD (and more importantly, will) buy them...
To be fair though, it unfortunately looks very bad for Hethel should the allegations against Mr. Bahar are proven to be true...
No patronisation intended, I genuinely assumed you didn't know. In my opinion, the Swizz Beatz connection is far too far removed from the brand to make any sense. I think many people who can afford these cars will probably never have heard of him anyway, so it smacks doubly of desperation.He's styled an Evora (which I think is done in quite good taste) and is basically being paid to make sure he puts Lotus cars in his music videos and does the same for his friends in the industry - it's a smart strategy really. Hip hop has an impact on global pop culture that is startling at times, whether you want to accept it or it - if you know what the word 'bling' means, you prove this point.
I always hear people like you talking about how you don't want rappers/drug-dealers/chavs/whatever-other-boring-stereotype-you-can-mention (aka those who actually have money to afford one) to buy Lotus cars because apparently doing so damages the precious image of the brand not to mention causing Colin Chapman to spin in his grave but I want to know who you think SHOULD (and more importantly, will) buy them...
To be fair though, it unfortunately looks very bad for Hethel should the allegations against Mr. Bahar are proven to be true...
EDIT: Just to add, having seen some of the other comments about snobbery, my opinion isn't based on that, it's based on the undertaking of the Swizz Beatz saga. Range Rover, Audemars Piguet, Burg al Arab, all end up being associated with hip hop artists because they genuinely fit that brand. The association evolves, it grows, it comes across as natural. Lotus, the race winning, technical experts, who build cars that are borderline track day specials, do not, as they stand, fit that section of the luxury arena. Perhaps if Bahar had developed his idea of the brand, successfully released his new cars, which then appealed to a new market such as the hip-hop crowd, then the link might fit, but even then, getting a record producer to help design the car is nearly as desperate as the press release I had in my inbox the other day where Girard Perregaux had given Archbishop Desmond Tutu a brand new gold watch...
Edited by andyroo on Saturday 26th May 17:58
ikonic said:
It always annoy me the snobbish behaviour of some people when it comes to certain marques of cars which they seem so dearly protective of; yet haven't actually put their hand in the own pocket to support.
There's a difference between snobbish behaviour and brand syndication that clearly doesn't fit. Bahar is promoting Lotus as a luxury manufacturer with the whole Swizz Beatz thing, when it isn't. It's what he intended with his new line-up of cars, but he kinda has to wait 'til those cars are in show rooms before he tries to reposition the company as a luxury car manufacturer. The cart is firmly before the horse in his vision, but it seems like we will never see what would have become of it anyway.I can see what Bahar is trying to do, particularly when hip hop is a big influence on Asian culture (where the money is), but he's over-egged the pudding somewhat.
EDIT: Plus I have owned Lotus products in my time, thank you
900T-R said:
I'd say 'who is likely to buy a Lotus' would be a rather more relevant question than 'who should buy Lotus cars'.
You've hit the nail on the head, and it's exactly the same problem that Bahar faced too. Average people won't buy Lotii in the numbers needed because they are too niche, rich people won't by Lotii either because they aren't a luxury product. Bahar was trying to make Lotus a luxury product, but too quickly, and too forcedly.mrclav said:
Thanks for the answer. What I think you grossly underestimate the influence some-one like Mr Dean and his ilk have on people around the world. If you can accept Asia is where the money is at and that hip-hop culture is accepted over there then how is the pudding being over-egged? Lotus are a business after all, a small business that needs people to buy the products much more than some-one like VAG. In my opinion, you're basing your ideas of branding on what you know hiphop to mean to you; that's not quite how it works.
Oversized chrome rims on cars were not popular until rappers put them in hip-hop videos.
Cristal was not the champagne of choice until rappers started drinking it in hip-hop videos.
No-one cared about what headphones they wore until Dr. Dre, Jimmy Iovine and Monster came up with Beats headphones and put them in hip-hop videos - catch my drift?
Trends don't make hip-hop, hip-hop sets the trends. Hence why, in my opinion, Mr. Bahar's plan is not as far-fetched as you'd think; if rappers say it's cool, are seen putting the cars in their videos or driving around in them a lot of people will think it's cool enough to actually want to buy one. Your point about the type of people who can afford a Lotus is somewhat moot to me, they're the same people who can afford a Mercedes Benz, Bentley, Ferrari etc and who buy into those brands precisely because they've seen people like him driving them!
The problem is that the current Lotus product is just not appealing to a luxury market - they're small, cramped, difficult to get in and out of etc. I do not for one second doubt the overwhelming power the hip hop industry has on the luxury sector, however all the products you listed lend themselves well to the luxury lifestyle. I also think you underestimate the level of market research that goes into these products that end up being popularised by hip hop artists too - these things rarely happen by accident. Bahar recognised that the current Lotus product wasn't suitable for the luxury market, which is why he introduced such drastically different new models, but getting Swizz Beatz involved so early on and so publicly was a mistake, one likely to have been made through external pressure to generate sales. You can buy all the hip hop influence you want, but if it's to sell incontinence pants, it just ain't gonna catch on! (just a cheeky analogy!)Oversized chrome rims on cars were not popular until rappers put them in hip-hop videos.
Cristal was not the champagne of choice until rappers started drinking it in hip-hop videos.
No-one cared about what headphones they wore until Dr. Dre, Jimmy Iovine and Monster came up with Beats headphones and put them in hip-hop videos - catch my drift?
Trends don't make hip-hop, hip-hop sets the trends. Hence why, in my opinion, Mr. Bahar's plan is not as far-fetched as you'd think; if rappers say it's cool, are seen putting the cars in their videos or driving around in them a lot of people will think it's cool enough to actually want to buy one. Your point about the type of people who can afford a Lotus is somewhat moot to me, they're the same people who can afford a Mercedes Benz, Bentley, Ferrari etc and who buy into those brands precisely because they've seen people like him driving them!
10 Pence Short said:
The people who should be buying Lotus cars are purists who enjoy the thrill of driving for driving's sake. They should be wealthy enough to afford a toy but not obsessed by trying to appear wealthy to others. Lotus buyers should be able to understand engineering concepts and appreciate the reasoning behind them.
Lotus is for drivers.
Problem is there aren't very many people like that willing to spend money on a new Lotus. They've only sold around forty cars in the UK so far this year.Lotus is for drivers.
Hellbound said:
In reply to a few comments made above;
How many times have Ferrari, Lamborghini, Range Rover etc been mentioned in Hip Hop music and shown in Hip Hop videos? In fact I seem to remember Lamborghini giving Akon a Gallardo. Has that harmed any of the myriad of brands which have appeared in such things? No it hasn't.
The elephant in the room is this; Lotus has been a vanity brand for the Malaysians. A LOSS MAKING vanity brand. The next logical step would be to say that purists alone cannot support the brand and cannot in any way ensure its survival. This has been proven time and time again. The financial accounts over at Lotus HQ will show this to be the case. There's no argument against it, none whatsoever. Lotus has been operating pretty much independently of its owners too, so you can't blame the Malaysians.
Even ROLEX makes money. Yes, the same brand with it's often misrepresented public image, not helped by the many gaudy personalized bejeweled examples floating around, turns an impressive profit. They employ people, lots of people. I'm sure they don't give a damn about image problems.
I would rather have a 'Popular Culture' Lotus that is financially healthy, building cars in Britain and making money instead of a 'Dead Man Walking Purists Wet Dream' Lotus; an uninspiring to the masses, economically redundant, introspective car company.
All the companies you mention make products that are appealing to the luxury sector. Lotus doesn't. How many times have Ferrari, Lamborghini, Range Rover etc been mentioned in Hip Hop music and shown in Hip Hop videos? In fact I seem to remember Lamborghini giving Akon a Gallardo. Has that harmed any of the myriad of brands which have appeared in such things? No it hasn't.
The elephant in the room is this; Lotus has been a vanity brand for the Malaysians. A LOSS MAKING vanity brand. The next logical step would be to say that purists alone cannot support the brand and cannot in any way ensure its survival. This has been proven time and time again. The financial accounts over at Lotus HQ will show this to be the case. There's no argument against it, none whatsoever. Lotus has been operating pretty much independently of its owners too, so you can't blame the Malaysians.
Even ROLEX makes money. Yes, the same brand with it's often misrepresented public image, not helped by the many gaudy personalized bejeweled examples floating around, turns an impressive profit. They employ people, lots of people. I'm sure they don't give a damn about image problems.
I would rather have a 'Popular Culture' Lotus that is financially healthy, building cars in Britain and making money instead of a 'Dead Man Walking Purists Wet Dream' Lotus; an uninspiring to the masses, economically redundant, introspective car company.
Hellbound said:
Yup.
If you're a purist Lotus fan. For you, I'm afraid the brand is already dead. In fact, according to some of your ilk, it's already been churning out rubbish.
The best thing for purists to do is to go and camp outside Ginetta in Leeds. If you're interested in one of their road cars they'll more than welcome you.
Who said I was a purist? I'm just someone that has a little bit of understanding about the luxury market career wise as well as having had the fortune to drive the Evora S and the Elise and the Hethel test track, and I can tell you that these two ingredients do not mix as they currently stand. If you're a purist Lotus fan. For you, I'm afraid the brand is already dead. In fact, according to some of your ilk, it's already been churning out rubbish.
The best thing for purists to do is to go and camp outside Ginetta in Leeds. If you're interested in one of their road cars they'll more than welcome you.
Hellbound said:
Label me ignorant, but any company that promotes its product in a Bond movie is appealing to the 'luxury' sector. By its very nature, luxury also means exclusive.
In any case, there's so much about Lotus that could be seen as luxury I'm not even going to press the matter further.
You and I have very different understandings of the level the Asian market would deem as 'luxury'In any case, there's so much about Lotus that could be seen as luxury I'm not even going to press the matter further.
Do I win a ride in your R500? 
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