SUVs - Whats the point?
Discussion
Firstly, before we begin, I am not an environmentalist or a hardened socialist (in fact, I'm very much the opposite) or anything like that - This is a genuine question. However, I must state that none of my arguments below apply if one genuinely uses a 4x4/SUV for going off road or for actual outdoors activities where the roads are rough, etc. etc.
Now I honestly don't mean to rattle any cages here. I understand that I'm in the minority of the developed economy population - and indeed, probably the world population could they afford them - in that I cannot see the point of a 4x4 for city, motorway or suburban use.
What brought this on then? Well my family love 4x4s, and they tend to get angry when I ask them why they would trade off so many physical factors for what I find to be negligible/irrelevent factors in favour of them. None of them have ever been off-road, indeed like 99% of urban-dwelling SUV owners today, and use arguments like "You can see further ahead" (given that most cross-overs aren't really that much taller than a hatchback, I rubbish this argument straight away), as well as the seats being in a more chair-like position which is supposed to be more comfortable.
Now just stating the obvious here, but for those couple of things mentioned above for that you have traded off both fuel economy, wear and tear and driving dynamics. First of all, a bigger box of a car will use more metal and will be of greater mass/heavier. Additionally, a taller car has a higher centre of gravity (CoG) - This then requires more engineering to go into smart suspension systems to reduce body roll as well as squat and dive. A combination of greater mass and high CoG also means more load on the brakes, both reducing their effectiveness as well as life. More mass also means more for the engine to lug around, so this of course means a bigger engine and more load on the engine compared to its saloon counterpart, using more fuel and reducing performance (hp/tonne) for a given engine. More engineering to overcome all these problems (mainly in the suspension system), needs clever engineering - which manufacturers have done and I'm not denying that - to make it drive more like a saloon car.
But this takes us back in a circle. What's the point of a SUV if you're not going off road in it?.
Again, i'm not against the urban SUV at all - if people want it, and manufacturers are making it for them, then go ahead. Its just that I don't understand the point of them.
I feel like I've missed something somewhere. Besides, if the majority of people aspire to owning a 4x4/SUV, there must be something that I don't understand rather than the other way round.
Now I honestly don't mean to rattle any cages here. I understand that I'm in the minority of the developed economy population - and indeed, probably the world population could they afford them - in that I cannot see the point of a 4x4 for city, motorway or suburban use.
What brought this on then? Well my family love 4x4s, and they tend to get angry when I ask them why they would trade off so many physical factors for what I find to be negligible/irrelevent factors in favour of them. None of them have ever been off-road, indeed like 99% of urban-dwelling SUV owners today, and use arguments like "You can see further ahead" (given that most cross-overs aren't really that much taller than a hatchback, I rubbish this argument straight away), as well as the seats being in a more chair-like position which is supposed to be more comfortable.
Now just stating the obvious here, but for those couple of things mentioned above for that you have traded off both fuel economy, wear and tear and driving dynamics. First of all, a bigger box of a car will use more metal and will be of greater mass/heavier. Additionally, a taller car has a higher centre of gravity (CoG) - This then requires more engineering to go into smart suspension systems to reduce body roll as well as squat and dive. A combination of greater mass and high CoG also means more load on the brakes, both reducing their effectiveness as well as life. More mass also means more for the engine to lug around, so this of course means a bigger engine and more load on the engine compared to its saloon counterpart, using more fuel and reducing performance (hp/tonne) for a given engine. More engineering to overcome all these problems (mainly in the suspension system), needs clever engineering - which manufacturers have done and I'm not denying that - to make it drive more like a saloon car.
But this takes us back in a circle. What's the point of a SUV if you're not going off road in it?.
Again, i'm not against the urban SUV at all - if people want it, and manufacturers are making it for them, then go ahead. Its just that I don't understand the point of them.
I feel like I've missed something somewhere. Besides, if the majority of people aspire to owning a 4x4/SUV, there must be something that I don't understand rather than the other way round.
Edited by sonnenschein3000 on Monday 12th June 13:55
Sten. said:
Image
Its most probably this I'm gathering. Again, nothing wrong with it. Its like buying a nice watch, its purely cosmetic, and in a capitalist society its important to have "carrots"/aspirations to encourage entrepreneurship / hard work in general. Its what creates employment for others, creates exports (hopefully) and ultimately the economy moving.
I was just asking from a sort of 'pure petrolhead' point of view, in terms of hard solid arguments. But I also appreciate that not everyone is an engineer or a petrolhead.
Shotaro said:
I have a 2002 CRV, why? Well...
1. Had a crash and needed something quickly and cheaply - it cost me £2300
2. Wife wanted something tall where our German Shepherd and Border Collie could sit up in when we're out and about
3. Swing door makes it easier to put said dogs in with while being able to push them back if needed so they don't get hit with a lowering tailgate - yes they can be quite dumb/escape artists sometimes, swing door gives me more control than having to crouch to push them back in
4. When on a jaunt around the countryside we can see over the hedges and get a better view of the road around corners so are more able to pull in to let people by on single track lanes - some quite tall hedges around
5. When we go out to fields to walk the dogs if it's slippy/muddy the 4wd kicks in to give us a hand
6. I have hip and back problems so getting in/out of lower cars can be a pain
7. I can pretend (in my head) to be in the A-Team/secret service
Ah yes but you seem to be out in the country a lot and can see the advantages of a 4x4 first hand. My original post was more for urban dwellers.1. Had a crash and needed something quickly and cheaply - it cost me £2300
2. Wife wanted something tall where our German Shepherd and Border Collie could sit up in when we're out and about
3. Swing door makes it easier to put said dogs in with while being able to push them back if needed so they don't get hit with a lowering tailgate - yes they can be quite dumb/escape artists sometimes, swing door gives me more control than having to crouch to push them back in
4. When on a jaunt around the countryside we can see over the hedges and get a better view of the road around corners so are more able to pull in to let people by on single track lanes - some quite tall hedges around
5. When we go out to fields to walk the dogs if it's slippy/muddy the 4wd kicks in to give us a hand
6. I have hip and back problems so getting in/out of lower cars can be a pain
7. I can pretend (in my head) to be in the A-Team/secret service
However, I take (6) on board as something that can apply to anyone with back problems.
chrispj said:
I don't have an suv but there two things thing that are irritating enough to have me consider one for my next car - speed bumps and pot holes. Both are multiplying like crazy round my way. Obviously this means not getting one with wafer thin low profile tyres...
Yeah, to be fair, I've heard a few underbody scrapes in my 'road' car and got a kick up the backside a few times from potholes. I see where you're coming fromI'm intrigued about this argument about being taller and therefore being able to see more = more safety?
If you're not tailgating the car in front then you get a pretty good view of the road ahead anyway? And if you're sticking to the 2 second rule (/4 second rule in rain) then you should be able to safely stop in an emergency regardless of vehicle height in the scenario where the vehicle in front comes to a stop quickly
I must stress that I'm still talking about city driving and not country driving
If you're not tailgating the car in front then you get a pretty good view of the road ahead anyway? And if you're sticking to the 2 second rule (/4 second rule in rain) then you should be able to safely stop in an emergency regardless of vehicle height in the scenario where the vehicle in front comes to a stop quickly
I must stress that I'm still talking about city driving and not country driving
Plate spinner said:
Having asked a few people that drive them, I think it comes down to the projected image and feelings of superiority.
Nothing wrong with that I guess, many folk are hugely driven to achieve these things whether they openly admit it or not.
And in a lot of cases, borrowing up to their eyeballs to achieve that!Nothing wrong with that I guess, many folk are hugely driven to achieve these things whether they openly admit it or not.
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