Discussion
As someone who is yet to be convinced by BEV but who at the same time has an extremely sore arse from sitting on the fence wondering, there was only one real solution. That solution was collected yesterday in the shape of a Chester blue electric Mii. It's a '20 plate ex VAG car that SEAT have added 2 further years warranty to (plus the usual 8 yr battery one).
Some good old fashioned haggling (remember that?) was completed last Saturday netting £750 off the asking bringing it to quite close to supermarket prices, 2 new Continental tyres for the front due to slight feathering on the outside edges of the originals, the best of these has been retained as a spare and still has a good 6/7 mm tread, a 3 pin plug charger (the proper lead is still nib), new blades all round and a 'service' (brake fluid change).
Drove it the 30 miles home, did some faffing around connecting phone etc whilst the 13amp plug did its thing for an hour or so and then me and Mrs Sticky tootled about locally for an hour playing with the regen settings.
Conclusion? So far so good. We have no intentions of trying to reach Lands End in it, it will only be charged at home and its dog simple to use unlike others we tried that were simply too try hard & look at me. Fully charged it last night and its only showing 128 miles rather than 160 that most suggest but it is cold (4/5 deg) so that may be the cause. Onwards!
Some good old fashioned haggling (remember that?) was completed last Saturday netting £750 off the asking bringing it to quite close to supermarket prices, 2 new Continental tyres for the front due to slight feathering on the outside edges of the originals, the best of these has been retained as a spare and still has a good 6/7 mm tread, a 3 pin plug charger (the proper lead is still nib), new blades all round and a 'service' (brake fluid change).
Drove it the 30 miles home, did some faffing around connecting phone etc whilst the 13amp plug did its thing for an hour or so and then me and Mrs Sticky tootled about locally for an hour playing with the regen settings.
Conclusion? So far so good. We have no intentions of trying to reach Lands End in it, it will only be charged at home and its dog simple to use unlike others we tried that were simply too try hard & look at me. Fully charged it last night and its only showing 128 miles rather than 160 that most suggest but it is cold (4/5 deg) so that may be the cause. Onwards!
Cheers chap, didn't see any point I paying 2-3 grand more for a V dub that's exactly the same and you have to be careful with the Skodas as lots are low spec non rapid charge.
Took it out this afternoon, ambient had increased to 7 deg and the proposed range showed 131 miles. 3 up 20 mile drive to St Andrews with lots of varying limits including some 70 dual & 50 country roads. Arrived St Andrews still showing 130 range. Same return journey except a quick visit to the golden hoops of joy drive thru and we were left with 114 miles range after 41 miles.
Clearly the range-o-meter needs to sort itself out but level 2 on the regen seems the most natural coming from manual petrol with a little bit of B downhills/faster speeds. Happy so far!
Took it out this afternoon, ambient had increased to 7 deg and the proposed range showed 131 miles. 3 up 20 mile drive to St Andrews with lots of varying limits including some 70 dual & 50 country roads. Arrived St Andrews still showing 130 range. Same return journey except a quick visit to the golden hoops of joy drive thru and we were left with 114 miles range after 41 miles.
Clearly the range-o-meter needs to sort itself out but level 2 on the regen seems the most natural coming from manual petrol with a little bit of B downhills/faster speeds. Happy so far!
Hooligan No.1 had a petrol 1.0 Mii as first car so we have a very good barometer of where to base this one. To be honest, the wee 1.0 litre was absolutely fine, struggled to give less than 50mpg even with a teenager behind the wheel and insurance was more than acceptable. The electric one is of course more refined and far torquier but (!) herein lies the rub.
The petrol one cost £2000 to buy and the insurance excess was much less even as a new driver compared to the rip off compulsory excess "because its electric" crap that I discovered a few days ago.
IF the world does want to go this way then it needs to make it far more affordable for everyone in all aspects. Cars like the Mii should still be made, but of course far more profit in Cupras', IDs' & so on. Yes they are bigger fancier cars with longer ranges but the cheapest I could find was almost double the Mii purchase price and that is where in my view it all starts to go wrong in this market.
Just checked and even in todays cold temps it is reporting 5.3 miles/Kwh average which is fine by me. Still gently charging it on the 3 pin and the range is now showing just short of 150 miles which is more like it!
The petrol one cost £2000 to buy and the insurance excess was much less even as a new driver compared to the rip off compulsory excess "because its electric" crap that I discovered a few days ago.
IF the world does want to go this way then it needs to make it far more affordable for everyone in all aspects. Cars like the Mii should still be made, but of course far more profit in Cupras', IDs' & so on. Yes they are bigger fancier cars with longer ranges but the cheapest I could find was almost double the Mii purchase price and that is where in my view it all starts to go wrong in this market.
Just checked and even in todays cold temps it is reporting 5.3 miles/Kwh average which is fine by me. Still gently charging it on the 3 pin and the range is now showing just short of 150 miles which is more like it!
I have a whinge! The headlight bulbs are of the single candle lamp 1 watt yellow nonsense...Now I appreciate its (supposed) to be a cheap car and expensive (power saving!) LEDs may not have been doable, but a pair of 1/2 decent white bulbs couldn't have been beyond them surely?
In regard to running costs, I am not convinced that it will be any cheaper to run/maintain or will hold its value any better ( I have bought this not leased it) than a petrol equivalent. However, the only way to verify this is to try it and genuinely confirm one way or the other. We bought a '20 plate Fiesta ST 1 year ago and it does the bulk of the daily duties/miles/school run work etc. Once the Zappi is installed over the next few weeks hopefully then the Mii will start to take on the bulk of the work the Fiesta currently does and then we shall begin to get a true cost picture between 2 cars that are the same age, cost similar amount to buy and so on. Insurance on the Fiesta is less, you have to try to get under 40 mpg (3 cylinders, cylinder deactivation, gas particulate filter) and it will travel an easy 350 miles between fill ups. Costs wise, yes road tax @£165 but an oil & filter change was < £100.
If the sun ever shines again up here then the Mii will benefit from our solar system to help balance things but a supplied/installed Zappi is going to be £1000 - ish and that has to be taken into account for overall costs. The 3 pin plug that I like using is too slow if we are to use the Mii as per the Fiesta. Anything else maintenance wise tyres/brakes/suspension bushes should be fairly even.
Now, only time and usage is going to give a genuine answer to this and that is why I bought the Mii. Most things I read have too much bias one way or the other, this will give me a definite answer.
In regard to running costs, I am not convinced that it will be any cheaper to run/maintain or will hold its value any better ( I have bought this not leased it) than a petrol equivalent. However, the only way to verify this is to try it and genuinely confirm one way or the other. We bought a '20 plate Fiesta ST 1 year ago and it does the bulk of the daily duties/miles/school run work etc. Once the Zappi is installed over the next few weeks hopefully then the Mii will start to take on the bulk of the work the Fiesta currently does and then we shall begin to get a true cost picture between 2 cars that are the same age, cost similar amount to buy and so on. Insurance on the Fiesta is less, you have to try to get under 40 mpg (3 cylinders, cylinder deactivation, gas particulate filter) and it will travel an easy 350 miles between fill ups. Costs wise, yes road tax @£165 but an oil & filter change was < £100.
If the sun ever shines again up here then the Mii will benefit from our solar system to help balance things but a supplied/installed Zappi is going to be £1000 - ish and that has to be taken into account for overall costs. The 3 pin plug that I like using is too slow if we are to use the Mii as per the Fiesta. Anything else maintenance wise tyres/brakes/suspension bushes should be fairly even.
Now, only time and usage is going to give a genuine answer to this and that is why I bought the Mii. Most things I read have too much bias one way or the other, this will give me a definite answer.
To be fair, a petrol Mii does not compare in that respect to the EV, the ST Fiesta is different in comparison though and far superior. I hope to retain both if I can. The Cupra is indeed interesting, (just watched Johnnie's Late Brake review last night funnily enough), but I'd have to sell both cars to afford and I have never managed to find one single do-it-all car that keeps my interest.
If the Mii can uphold its end of the super eco side then great, that'll keep the miles of the Fiesta for fun and games. Just for extra smarty points, we have sorned the faithful family 5 series wagon for the month to see how the Mii manages!
Good shout on the headlamp bulbs, I'll have look into them.
Cheers
If the Mii can uphold its end of the super eco side then great, that'll keep the miles of the Fiesta for fun and games. Just for extra smarty points, we have sorned the faithful family 5 series wagon for the month to see how the Mii manages!
Good shout on the headlamp bulbs, I'll have look into them.
Cheers
Exactly that Terry, the Honda would have been nice (I looked at i3's too) but the cost was significantly more in either case without any real benefit other than posher. Low temps are still giving range calculations of @130 miles possible and that can only bode well for warmer days. We are getting used to it now and it is just so for all the daft short local journeys when the weather is pants.
I have downloaded the app but have yet to try it as most users think its err....a bit poor to say the least. I shall try at some stage no doubt. Good experiment today, lovely clear skies and the solar panels bringing in lots of juice. The home storage batteries (12Kw) were getting on for 60% so I plugged in the Mii on the 13 amp and enjoyed 2 1/2 hrs (41 miles) of 'free' charging. Home storage still got to 85% too, bonus! Next few days might not be so fruitful mind.....
Had a play with the app, don't think I'll be bothering with it much. Last time I saw graphics like that was on a Sinclair Spectrum.....I'll stick with Waze and warm the thing up myself (which is does quickly anyway). Gave middle hooligan a go in it yesterday (he's well on his way to sitting his manual test), he adapted quite quickly once I explained the regen etc but he finished with 'boring' after a half hour play....fair enough!
Zappi 2.0 installed yesterday so we are all good for quicker turnarounds now if needed. It added around 30 miles range in an hour and a quarter so not too bad in cold 3C ambient.
Unfortunately, we have a duff door sesñor/lock and the interior light doesn't go out when they are closed. Dealer aware and we shall keep the interior lights switched off just now. Glad of the new wipers with the amount of rain we have been getting too! I also did a trickle charge of the 12v battery as it was down in the 11 volts (perhaps related to the interior light?) so that's back up at 12v now.
Unfortunately, we have a duff door sesñor/lock and the interior light doesn't go out when they are closed. Dealer aware and we shall keep the interior lights switched off just now. Glad of the new wipers with the amount of rain we have been getting too! I also did a trickle charge of the 12v battery as it was down in the 11 volts (perhaps related to the interior light?) so that's back up at 12v now.
Got a Fb marketplace bargain today. 10 quid for full set of moulded genuine rubber mats for the Mii! Have confirmed it's the boot switch not switching off the interior light and now its slightly warmer car is averaging 5.3miles/Kwh. Lots of positive comment from people that have been in the car too!
Experienced what is probably ev Achilles heel for myself today. Weather was drizzle and only 7C ambient so I needed the heater fan on (not a/c), heated rear screen on occasion, wipers & headlights. 46 miles of start stop stuff yielded 3.9 miles/Kwh. That's fastest I've seen the range drop to be fair. It has left claimed range of 78 miles left, was tempted to top up but have left it to see how far I can actually get through the rest of the week.
somouk said:
The e-mii has a heated screen instead of using the fan as it is more efficent. Might be worth considering.
Anything with a heating element is going to kill the battery though.
Unfortunately due to the drizzle and slow speeds the heated front screen wasn't any good as the side windows were steaming up and cracking the windows a little just allowed water into the cabin. I knew it would be an issue and can factor that in.Anything with a heating element is going to kill the battery though.
On a positive note, bright sunny day yesterday so decided to charge using the surplus from the panels. A few hours later I had a range of 141 miles. Drove around locally for an hour and got home with 141 miles still remaining.....You could argue that makes up for the rubbish one a few days earlier!
6 m/kwh hit today for the first time! Long slow overnight charge from the Zappi on eco, Range showed 131 miles at start up and 7C ambient. Actually thought there was something wrong as I had no regen at all for the first few miles. After that the regen worked as normal so I'm guessing that the cells were completely full and couldn't take anything back initially. Completed 39.7 miles over 3 and bit hours and got home with orange of 130 still showing and the temp hovering around 9C.
If all that tallies, that was a possible range of a sniff under 170 miles which I reckon is good going.
If all that tallies, that was a possible range of a sniff under 170 miles which I reckon is good going.
Experiment time yesterday. As said, temps are increasing and range increasing too. I had the range up to 166 miles potential last weekend. Yesterday with 140 showing we tried a trip along the dual carriageway. Despite being in 'eco', heater etc all of as it was quite warm and the cruise set to a sensible 58-60 mph we arrived at our destination 28.7 miles away with just 71 miles range left......The first 5 miles were in the 'burbs with 5.4 m.kwh showing. We arrived with an average of 4.3 m/kwh.
Now whichever side of the fence you sit (and as stated by me when I began this thread) the whole idea of this is to discover first hand the ups and downs of an ev. That is extremely poor whichever way you cut it and whatever reasons/excuses you offer up not really good enough. The Fiesta for example would have consumed well under 1 gallon of fuel.
We returned a different route using small country roads, through villages etc and the Mii was able to redeem itself and arrived home with an average of 4.8m/kwh and 55 miles showing.
As said, it was a fair test and we continue to enjoy it for all the short local stuff where it does excel, the 5 series was brought out of hibernation for todays longer drive, horses for courses etc!
Now whichever side of the fence you sit (and as stated by me when I began this thread) the whole idea of this is to discover first hand the ups and downs of an ev. That is extremely poor whichever way you cut it and whatever reasons/excuses you offer up not really good enough. The Fiesta for example would have consumed well under 1 gallon of fuel.
We returned a different route using small country roads, through villages etc and the Mii was able to redeem itself and arrived home with an average of 4.8m/kwh and 55 miles showing.
As said, it was a fair test and we continue to enjoy it for all the short local stuff where it does excel, the 5 series was brought out of hibernation for todays longer drive, horses for courses etc!
There was a slight wind but not much, the reason I ended up using the CC was because the range was falling as rapidly as it did. Add in we were in 'eco', heater off and only 2 up and the numbers weren't great unfortunately.
Haven't had it up to max leptons (yet) but it was 'ok' to chuck about on the country roads in a 2 dimensional way on the way back once we knew we were fine range wise.
Its a fine wee car in its comfort zone, go out of that and not so much and as said at the beginning of this (ahem) journey, I have zero intentions of using/joining the UKs charging network. Any sitting around will be done at home! Did give it a proper wash, clay bar, wash, polish and waxing though.
Haven't had it up to max leptons (yet) but it was 'ok' to chuck about on the country roads in a 2 dimensional way on the way back once we knew we were fine range wise.
Its a fine wee car in its comfort zone, go out of that and not so much and as said at the beginning of this (ahem) journey, I have zero intentions of using/joining the UKs charging network. Any sitting around will be done at home! Did give it a proper wash, clay bar, wash, polish and waxing though.
OK, wee update. Continue to enjoy the car with 7miles/kwh showing over 5 hrs use on a sunny Monday past for start/stop suburban use (@ 49 miles). Had been getting annoyed at the noise coming from the boot area. Took out spare wheel etc and stuck down some left over sound deadening I had in the garage in the spare wheel well and the sides of the boot itself (all painted shouty metal surfaces). Much better when driving so tempted to get some more inside the rear hatch and doors.
I've only added around 1/2 kg of sound deadening pads. There will be no discernible difference in efficiency at all. Mondays peak efficiency recorded is testament to that. The difference in 'tin can' drumming from the rear is very tangible though making the car more pleasant to use. If you pull back the carpet/sound deadening felt from around the front bulkhead they have had to put in quite a lot of material in those areas but nothing at all in the boot area. That simply smacks of penny pinching. If I put a small amount in the doors, not only will it help quiet things further, but it should help the crappy 'stereo' sound a little better too!
Yes, some bizarre pricing going on there. My one has most certainly dropped in value a good £2-3k in just 8 weeks. So much for the better residuals mentioned by others earlier in the thread.....My Fiesta hasn't dropped a penny in the last 14 months and that pays for rather a lot of unleaded no matter how pro EV you are. For the sake of balance, I did benefit tax wise but not everyone will be in that position.
Positives though are an average of 5.8 miles/kWh over the last 1000 miles and a very warm Thursday last week when fully charged showed an anticipated range of 199 miles according to the display. Tried to nudge it up to 200 but no joy!
So, swings and roundabouts continue.
Positives though are an average of 5.8 miles/kWh over the last 1000 miles and a very warm Thursday last week when fully charged showed an anticipated range of 199 miles according to the display. Tried to nudge it up to 200 but no joy!
So, swings and roundabouts continue.
Sorry JQ, I don't have that info as we have a solar system with battery storage (12 Kw). We don't have a smart meter ( too big brother for me) and when reading the various articles on cheap rate electricity from Octopus etc for overnight charging there is always a catch such as more expensive daytime tariff and prices being checked/changed every 30 minutes. We work from home so this would work out more expensive in the long run from my fag packet calculations.
I try to do the majority of charging via the panels/batteries when possible or slow overnight charging if the weather is poor. Swings and roundabouts again but it seems to be working so far as I have just reduced our monthly payment for g&e and plan to do so again as long as we remain in credit. The benefit I feel in regard to the Mii is the battery is small, car not too bad weight wise and we only use it for local start stop trips which is where it is very good indeed. As stated earlier in the thread, it is not particularly good range wise on the bigger faster roads unfortunately. If someone ever manages to sort that then win win.
I try to do the majority of charging via the panels/batteries when possible or slow overnight charging if the weather is poor. Swings and roundabouts again but it seems to be working so far as I have just reduced our monthly payment for g&e and plan to do so again as long as we remain in credit. The benefit I feel in regard to the Mii is the battery is small, car not too bad weight wise and we only use it for local start stop trips which is where it is very good indeed. As stated earlier in the thread, it is not particularly good range wise on the bigger faster roads unfortunately. If someone ever manages to sort that then win win.
For balance the Ovo example somewhat muddles the real figures. Done purely on the scientific calculation of miles per gallon equivalent then
mpge = mi/kWh x 33.705. Therefore the current 5.8 m/kWh gives an equivalency of 195.48 mpg. A more common 4 kWh car would be 134mpg using maths.
When you then add in different costs for both electric and fuel then everything of course moves again. The more common (keeping the sums simple!) 30p Kw from say Octopus would divide the 341 mpg example given to 'just' 113 mpg. Charge up on the motorway at the daft prices and you can easily slash that down to an efficient petrol car equivalent if you weren't careful.
At this time of year I am approximately 50/50 grid/solar so lets say 15p kW giving roughly 175 mpg.
mpge = mi/kWh x 33.705. Therefore the current 5.8 m/kWh gives an equivalency of 195.48 mpg. A more common 4 kWh car would be 134mpg using maths.
When you then add in different costs for both electric and fuel then everything of course moves again. The more common (keeping the sums simple!) 30p Kw from say Octopus would divide the 341 mpg example given to 'just' 113 mpg. Charge up on the motorway at the daft prices and you can easily slash that down to an efficient petrol car equivalent if you weren't careful.
At this time of year I am approximately 50/50 grid/solar so lets say 15p kW giving roughly 175 mpg.
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