Thinking of going freelance in IT...
Discussion
I have graduated from university and right now I do freelance work for my mate as it is easy money and it's great for me to get experience in programming, web dev, etc. P.S. this thread is suitable for the computing or business section. If the mods on here want to move the thread, then be my guest. It's down to your discretion, I don't mind either way. 
One of the problems I have is that the process of development can be slow. For example, I've made a CRM app using .NET and I'll be charging a few hundred pounds for what is simply just a database-driven app which took a few hours to produce (could have been quicker but inexperience meant it would take a bit of time). The client I am working with is a bit slow to check the prototype and email me back with feedback. What is even more annoying is that the client says this has to be implemented very quickly, and then I don't hear back from them for ages. Fair enough, they are busy being the sole person to run a small shop. Some clients like this are on my msn and say they will check their email for my message, but don't. Thus the stage for me to get paid can take a lot longer than usual. Does anyone here have this problem? How do you deal with this?
Often I have to make web apps (which I enjoy doing). These include ecommerce systems, intranets, corporate portals with CM systems, but because I am working with small businesses and the client doesn't understand or would care about the technical effort required, I can only get away with charging 2k for dynamic web apps built in ASP.NET. This feels like I am undercharging, as some of these web applications are extremely complicated. How do IT freelancers on here cope with this problem? Can it be solved with good marketing or a good client base? I want to do contract work too so I can put companies like Nike or Toyota on my CV.
How do freelancers on here cope with planning for a pension. Furthermore, does working freelance make it harder to have a mortgage, take out a loan, or carry out a major purchase such as buying a new car?
Thanks
One of the problems I have is that the process of development can be slow. For example, I've made a CRM app using .NET and I'll be charging a few hundred pounds for what is simply just a database-driven app which took a few hours to produce (could have been quicker but inexperience meant it would take a bit of time). The client I am working with is a bit slow to check the prototype and email me back with feedback. What is even more annoying is that the client says this has to be implemented very quickly, and then I don't hear back from them for ages. Fair enough, they are busy being the sole person to run a small shop. Some clients like this are on my msn and say they will check their email for my message, but don't. Thus the stage for me to get paid can take a lot longer than usual. Does anyone here have this problem? How do you deal with this?
Often I have to make web apps (which I enjoy doing). These include ecommerce systems, intranets, corporate portals with CM systems, but because I am working with small businesses and the client doesn't understand or would care about the technical effort required, I can only get away with charging 2k for dynamic web apps built in ASP.NET. This feels like I am undercharging, as some of these web applications are extremely complicated. How do IT freelancers on here cope with this problem? Can it be solved with good marketing or a good client base? I want to do contract work too so I can put companies like Nike or Toyota on my CV.
How do freelancers on here cope with planning for a pension. Furthermore, does working freelance make it harder to have a mortgage, take out a loan, or carry out a major purchase such as buying a new car?
Thanks
I graduated with a 2.1. I use vb.net.
I usually work closely with the business, as I spend an entire day down there.
I agree that getting a permanant job is the best option, and I am looking around and applying right now but if I don't get anything I don't want to do an Msc. Instead I want to make money so I can support a car etc and the only way would be to work freelance (contract work can come later with experience). I have the contacts required and constantly make new contacts. If I apply for graduate positions in the 2007/8 cycle, I have to wait a year (next summer) to start working. What will I do in the mean time? I'm not going to tide myself over with an unskilled job like being a checkout operator.
Working only for people who are savvy in IT is a good idea, but this will mean they will know about the effort required for what they want and you can't charge extra etc.
This work tempts me as I'd be making solutions all on my own and that's where the real sense of achievement is. Furthermore, as a freelancer, I'd be doing all types of work (db design, web design, programming, etc) rather than just one discipline in a full time job. I fear this would mean my other skills would detoriate.
I usually work closely with the business, as I spend an entire day down there.
I agree that getting a permanant job is the best option, and I am looking around and applying right now but if I don't get anything I don't want to do an Msc. Instead I want to make money so I can support a car etc and the only way would be to work freelance (contract work can come later with experience). I have the contacts required and constantly make new contacts. If I apply for graduate positions in the 2007/8 cycle, I have to wait a year (next summer) to start working. What will I do in the mean time? I'm not going to tide myself over with an unskilled job like being a checkout operator.
Working only for people who are savvy in IT is a good idea, but this will mean they will know about the effort required for what they want and you can't charge extra etc.
This work tempts me as I'd be making solutions all on my own and that's where the real sense of achievement is. Furthermore, as a freelancer, I'd be doing all types of work (db design, web design, programming, etc) rather than just one discipline in a full time job. I fear this would mean my other skills would detoriate.
Edited by Z064life on Thursday 26th July 12:32
I graduated with a 2.1. I use vb.net.
I usually work closely with the business, as I spend an entire day down there.
I agree that getting a permanant job is the best option, and I am looking around and applying right now but if I don't get anything I don't want to do an Msc. Instead I want to make money so I can support a car etc and the only way would be to work freelance (contract work can come later with experience). I have the contacts required and constantly make new contacts. If I apply for graduate positions in the 2007/8 cycle, I have to wait a year (next summer) to start working. What will I do in the mean time? I'm not going to tide myself over with an unskilled job like being a checkout operator.
Working only for people who are savvy in IT is a good idea, but this will mean they will know about the effort required for what they want and you can't charge extra etc.
This work tempts me as I'd be making solutions all on my own and that's where the real sense of achievement is. Furthermore, as a freelancer, I'd be doing all types of work (db design, web design, programming, etc) rather than just one discipline in a full time job. I fear this would mean my other skills would detoriate. The oppurtunity to say on my CV that I, and only I, built an intranet, ecommerce system, corporate portal with CMS (all things I have in the pipeline) really appeals to me.
I usually work closely with the business, as I spend an entire day down there.
I agree that getting a permanant job is the best option, and I am looking around and applying right now but if I don't get anything I don't want to do an Msc. Instead I want to make money so I can support a car etc and the only way would be to work freelance (contract work can come later with experience). I have the contacts required and constantly make new contacts. If I apply for graduate positions in the 2007/8 cycle, I have to wait a year (next summer) to start working. What will I do in the mean time? I'm not going to tide myself over with an unskilled job like being a checkout operator.
Working only for people who are savvy in IT is a good idea, but this will mean they will know about the effort required for what they want and you can't charge extra etc.
This work tempts me as I'd be making solutions all on my own and that's where the real sense of achievement is. Furthermore, as a freelancer, I'd be doing all types of work (db design, web design, programming, etc) rather than just one discipline in a full time job. I fear this would mean my other skills would detoriate. The oppurtunity to say on my CV that I, and only I, built an intranet, ecommerce system, corporate portal with CMS (all things I have in the pipeline) really appeals to me.
Edited by Z064life on Thursday 26th July 12:33
Edited by Z064life on Thursday 26th July 12:33
rich1231 said:
Z064life said:
I graduated with a 2.1. I use vb.net.
I usually work closely with the business, as I spend an entire day down there.
I agree that getting a permanant job is the best option, and I am looking around and applying right now but if I don't get anything I don't want to do an Msc. Instead I want to make money so I can support a car etc and the only way would be to work freelance (contract work can come later with experience). I have the contacts required and constantly make new contacts. If I apply for graduate positions in the 2007/8 cycle, I have to wait a year (next summer) to start working. What will I do in the mean time? I'm not going to tide myself over with an unskilled job like being a checkout operator.
Working only for people who are savvy in IT is a good idea, but this will mean they will know about the effort required for what they want and you can't charge extra etc.
This work tempts me as I'd be making solutions all on my own and that's where the real sense of achievement is. Furthermore, as a freelancer, I'd be doing all types of work (db design, web design, programming, etc) rather than just one discipline in a full time job. I fear this would mean my other skills would detoriate.
Sorry.. you seem to be asking a question for which 1 you dont want an answer and 2.. why are you asking about long term cinsiderations if you are only doing it to tide you over until you get a "proper job"I usually work closely with the business, as I spend an entire day down there.
I agree that getting a permanant job is the best option, and I am looking around and applying right now but if I don't get anything I don't want to do an Msc. Instead I want to make money so I can support a car etc and the only way would be to work freelance (contract work can come later with experience). I have the contacts required and constantly make new contacts. If I apply for graduate positions in the 2007/8 cycle, I have to wait a year (next summer) to start working. What will I do in the mean time? I'm not going to tide myself over with an unskilled job like being a checkout operator.
Working only for people who are savvy in IT is a good idea, but this will mean they will know about the effort required for what they want and you can't charge extra etc.
This work tempts me as I'd be making solutions all on my own and that's where the real sense of achievement is. Furthermore, as a freelancer, I'd be doing all types of work (db design, web design, programming, etc) rather than just one discipline in a full time job. I fear this would mean my other skills would detoriate.
Edited by Z064life on Thursday 26th July 12:32
I am telling you as someone that interviews IT people often, that fresh out of uni developers would not get an interview, nor would I allow them to tender for work. Technically you are unlikely to be rounded, and spending a day with business is not what I meant before. It's very easy to capture requirements incorrectly.
You need some proper commercial experience behind you to consider "contracting" as a profession. But if you just want some cash to tide you over then carry on as you are for a few months.
You say that a fresh out of uni developer is unlikely to be rounded technically, and I agree, as many of my friends are not. That's why working freelance appeals to me. My dad works in IT and only really knows programming, a bit of Unix, and database design. I know all of that and web design, web development, graphics design, etc. I feel that if I get a permenant job it would be unlikely I use all of these disciplines so my skillset will not be managed well. The freelance work I have already done and am doing has called on all of these disciplines. And of course, my problem solving skills and so forth have been brought into play.
As for reading books, I agree they only help to a point. I've read many books but experience is much better, hence why I have done self-initiated projects.
I agree working freelance kills the social aspect and working in teams, unless you hire someone to do part of a project.
The contractor thing was just something that I said without much thought, really. Bit of an afterthought. I'm looking to work freelance as it's unlikely I'm going to get a job now (partly because I have a lot of work on as well). Also, now is the best time for me as my mate needs several web apps.
Most systems I have made have not been a smooth process when dealing with the client or on the technical side. I have plenty of stories there so I can handle problems and put that in my C.V. In fact, it's harder for me as I have nobody to refer to as I would perhaps have if I was in a team.
To the other member: I'm not a member of freelancers.net.
Edited by Z064life on Thursday 26th July 15:30
Gotta agree with everything here...
Inexperience is something that plagues me in so many areas of my life, like in driving. That's why I'm so keen to read books (the least helpful resource I feel), talk to fellow industry professionals about the latest in web development, programming, etc, and most importantly, why I am keen to even do small projects for free - because of the experience factor. I always keep myself busy by also working on my own self-initiated projects.
If I don't get a perm job for a September/October start, then I could do an MSc but my BSc degree has given me more knowledge then experience. Most of what I have made in my degree, apart from my dissertation ecommerce system, cannot be put down on my cv because it was such basic work designed in home software like Access. We learnt a lot of complex theory I feel, but the systems we made did not warrant this theory. At uni level I would expect to be using Oracle (I took the initiative and used this instead of Access though). Uni itself says the experience comes from the employment, logically leaving the labs for strictly theory. Doing a large project with one supervisor is not real experience as your supervisor would not necessarily know about your chosen topic, as in the case of my dissertation.
Inexperience is something that plagues me in so many areas of my life, like in driving. That's why I'm so keen to read books (the least helpful resource I feel), talk to fellow industry professionals about the latest in web development, programming, etc, and most importantly, why I am keen to even do small projects for free - because of the experience factor. I always keep myself busy by also working on my own self-initiated projects.
If I don't get a perm job for a September/October start, then I could do an MSc but my BSc degree has given me more knowledge then experience. Most of what I have made in my degree, apart from my dissertation ecommerce system, cannot be put down on my cv because it was such basic work designed in home software like Access. We learnt a lot of complex theory I feel, but the systems we made did not warrant this theory. At uni level I would expect to be using Oracle (I took the initiative and used this instead of Access though). Uni itself says the experience comes from the employment, logically leaving the labs for strictly theory. Doing a large project with one supervisor is not real experience as your supervisor would not necessarily know about your chosen topic, as in the case of my dissertation.
M@H" Target="_blank">class="forumQuoter">M@H said:
Z064life said:
Capturing requirements is easy for a simple system.
You reckon.. ?If you have all the skills you say then get into a software house for a bit, then you can put that on your c.v. Then find something else for the c.v. then a bit more, then a bit more, then some more, then go contracting if you want to.
It took me years and years of relevant permie work building my c.v. before I started contracting and whilst yes the money is good when you are working, its not so good when you are not plus there are an awful lot of people out there chasing jobs.
If you want a headstart find a niche technology but don't expect it to last forever. Oracle Application Express is a good money earner at the moment, albeit the work is often within the MOD.
Equally I agree with what others have said though, I wouldn't take on a freelance contractor to work for me without the "rounded" c.v. that comes from experience. Don't take this the wrong way, and the best of luck in what you choose, you've still got plenty of time to make your millions
Oh PS, don't discount the skills you have in "basic" technologies as a lot of companies still use them. I running a migration project from a VB6 / SQL7 appication
and my old Access skills and NT server skills are still very useful.Edited by M@H on Friday 27th July 13:39
I could also get on an MSc for a September start at my uni. People even enroll after the course has started.
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