Is anyone else not ambitious
Discussion
T1547 said:
Made me smile reading this, it's pretty similar to my own ethos. I've also had the benefit of moving around a handful of times and my type of role being in demand that each move has increased my pay without necessarily increasing responsibility. I seem to have ended up £8-10k pa higher than my peers. My problem is I often get promoted without actively seeking it - fairly young (33), face that fits etc - but in all honesty I've come to realise I get far more satisfaction from having (and continuously improving upon) the technical knowledge I need for the non-managerial client-facing side of my role than I do from managing people. It's a shame that in many companies, managing people = more money, as opposed to more knowledge = more money.
In the late 80s many companies got rid of pay bands with increments. So you'd be forced to negotiate with someone more senior to get any level of pay rise. For a young engineer with a young family, this was BALLOCKS. Loads of people were chasing promotion before they were ready. And obviously engineers with little experience can only be promoted to manage other engineers. Usually managing people who were still on the old increments and earning 40% more than them. Edited by T1547 on Monday 17th June 22:54
I had to pretend to want promotion because I needed more money, so that I could start a family. It was 20 years before I felt I had enough. It was always a stretch. And that's when I went contracting.
20 years ago I was a development team lead, first rung of manegment.. Yeah nah happy senior dev with no plans to step up anywhere. It pays well and I'll be retiring early but have to have that work life balance.
I kind of have a second career on the go but it's more for fun than money.
I kind of have a second career on the go but it's more for fun than money.
I’m quite happy and stress free in my current job. In my last I was run off my feet, had responsibility for running a department in a supermarket and everything that goes with that. I eventually had enough of the stress, I had lost my rag in work with people and didn’t like what it was doing to me. I thankfully cut my hours, went to college for a couple of years and ended up now with something better.
The problem I think in my last job was I was chasing more money, as it wasn’t best paid. But now I’m on a better salary as my job is skilled, but it is less stressful. I’d quite happily plod away doing this for my whole career.
The problem I think in my last job was I was chasing more money, as it wasn’t best paid. But now I’m on a better salary as my job is skilled, but it is less stressful. I’d quite happily plod away doing this for my whole career.
My ambition is to drive a ride-on mover, cutting the grass in a big park or similar, headphones in, smoking a roll-up as I go (I don't smoke now but I'll take it up for the role).
I'm hoping one day, after another 20yrs or so of real work, I may be able to achieve that
That said, I don't have a stressful job now and I've always maintained that if someone offered me a £100k a year job tomorrow, I'd turn it down instantly on the basis that they'd want £100k's worth of work out of me and I just don't think I'm prepared to give it. Not that I'm work-shy, I was in the office just after 7am this morning and I won't leave until 4:30pm but I'm on here now, so swings and roundabouts...
I always hate the "where do you see yourself in 10yrs time?" question in job interviews. I usually just go with an ambition-ambiguous response citing 'happiness' or 'fulfillment' but I'm really just thinking 'I'm not overly fussed as long as I don't dread a day at work'.
I'm hoping one day, after another 20yrs or so of real work, I may be able to achieve that
That said, I don't have a stressful job now and I've always maintained that if someone offered me a £100k a year job tomorrow, I'd turn it down instantly on the basis that they'd want £100k's worth of work out of me and I just don't think I'm prepared to give it. Not that I'm work-shy, I was in the office just after 7am this morning and I won't leave until 4:30pm but I'm on here now, so swings and roundabouts...
I always hate the "where do you see yourself in 10yrs time?" question in job interviews. I usually just go with an ambition-ambiguous response citing 'happiness' or 'fulfillment' but I'm really just thinking 'I'm not overly fussed as long as I don't dread a day at work'.
Monkeylegend said:
JB! said:
I don't want to manage staff.
No interest whatsoever in doing it.
So I'm effectively at a glass ceiling, as any roles further up the food chain come with teams to manage.
I was the opposite, I loved people management and the interaction.No interest whatsoever in doing it.
So I'm effectively at a glass ceiling, as any roles further up the food chain come with teams to manage.
I walked away when the next level for me would have taken me away from that into a more "political" role which I knew was beyond my abilities. I never knew when to keep my mouth shut
Always worked for myself after that.
I could be persuaded to take on one or two, but i wouldn't want a team of 12 highly educated and sharp professionals as my first line management job.
JB! said:
Monkeylegend said:
JB! said:
I don't want to manage staff.
No interest whatsoever in doing it.
So I'm effectively at a glass ceiling, as any roles further up the food chain come with teams to manage.
I was the opposite, I loved people management and the interaction.No interest whatsoever in doing it.
So I'm effectively at a glass ceiling, as any roles further up the food chain come with teams to manage.
I walked away when the next level for me would have taken me away from that into a more "political" role which I knew was beyond my abilities. I never knew when to keep my mouth shut
Always worked for myself after that.
I could be persuaded to take on one or two, but i wouldn't want a team of 12 highly educated and sharp professionals as my first line management job.
Edited by Monkeylegend on Tuesday 18th June 08:51
Friend owns a printers/stationery company and has three sales staff, pays them £40,000 a year and when they have produced sales of 9X salary they have a bonus of 10% of sales. They are all ruthless, ambitious and the most obnoxious three people you could ever meet, all happy to steal sales off each othe but all of them earn well in excess of their base salary. Just a pity that none of them - and one of them is a woman - are people that you would want to know.
Seperate story. He gives them company cars, top spec Mondeos. Their driving is terrible with at least 3 fault accidents each every 12 months, it reached the point where it was difficult for his business to buy fleet insurance at any price. This all changed in January this year he bought a second hand Fabia. The rule was when a sales staff Mondeo was off the road due to a fault accident that they took the Fabia and kept it until the next person had an accident. Claims history has turned around from 9+ fault accidents in a year to one in 2019 to date.
Seperate story. He gives them company cars, top spec Mondeos. Their driving is terrible with at least 3 fault accidents each every 12 months, it reached the point where it was difficult for his business to buy fleet insurance at any price. This all changed in January this year he bought a second hand Fabia. The rule was when a sales staff Mondeo was off the road due to a fault accident that they took the Fabia and kept it until the next person had an accident. Claims history has turned around from 9+ fault accidents in a year to one in 2019 to date.
JB! said:
I don't want to manage staff.
No interest whatsoever in doing it.
So I'm effectively at a glass ceiling, as any roles further up the food chain come with teams to manage.
I find it bizarre that in most companies pay and promotion is directly related to management responsibility. I've known people who were excellent at technical work who got promoted in positions of management that they were crap at, and I'm sure there are lots of people who are great at HR and project management that are crap at technical work. I worked for a guy years ago who'd been promoted in to a position with a fair few management responsibilities who couldn't even manage his own time effectively let alone anyone else's. Fortunately it put him in the position he was able to hire a very competent contract project manager to manage all the programmes he was in charge of , which meant he was just about able to muddle through the rest of his management responsibilities and leave some time to get technical work done.No interest whatsoever in doing it.
So I'm effectively at a glass ceiling, as any roles further up the food chain come with teams to manage.
I'm quite fortunate that I've managed to get in to a position where I'm well paid but have no management responsibilities. the next grade up from me tond to do a lot more hours to deal with the extra responsibilities and I'm not sure I can be bothered to chase that.
roboxm3 said:
My ambition is to drive a ride-on mover, cutting the grass in a big park or similar, headphones in, smoking a roll-up as I go (I don't smoke now but I'll take it up for the role).
I'm hoping one day, after another 20yrs or so of real work, I may be able to achieve that
Sounds idyllic! I'm hoping one day, after another 20yrs or so of real work, I may be able to achieve that
We're born to work, and benefit scroungers aside, it's very much conditioned into most of us via Society/Parents/Education/etc that the life path is school > work > get a house and/or have kids > continue to work to support house and/or kids > retire > die.
Occasionally I do think, what's it all for? And I rtead an article about the odd person who stepped out of this cycle and has moved to a remote Island somewhere where they've no bills to pay, catch or grow their own food, and live a seemingly tranquil and content existence - albeit without the 'luxuries' we work for, but also without the stresses. Not sure yet if they're enlightened or crazy.
carguy45 said:
We're born to work, and benefit scroungers aside, it's very much conditioned into most of us via Society/Parents/Education/etc that the life path is school > work > get a house and/or have kids > continue to work to support house and/or kids > retire > die.
That's true but it's just brainwashing really. From age 4 until we leave university we're just being trained to become taxpayers.Pothole said:
jakesmith said:
I got promoted last year & had started pressing for another promotion to director level
As such I got marked really harshly at my performance review as my manager & his boss realised they can get another 3-4 years out of me giving it 110% if they make me work really hard for a promotion
I have just realised that I can't be bothered to do that for a job title change promotion & and just going to do my job really well and leave it at that
That'd be 3 of you at management level who don't understand percentages, then?As such I got marked really harshly at my performance review as my manager & his boss realised they can get another 3-4 years out of me giving it 110% if they make me work really hard for a promotion
I have just realised that I can't be bothered to do that for a job title change promotion & and just going to do my job really well and leave it at that
Monkeylegend said:
JB! said:
Monkeylegend said:
JB! said:
I don't want to manage staff.
No interest whatsoever in doing it.
So I'm effectively at a glass ceiling, as any roles further up the food chain come with teams to manage.
I was the opposite, I loved people management and the interaction.No interest whatsoever in doing it.
So I'm effectively at a glass ceiling, as any roles further up the food chain come with teams to manage.
I walked away when the next level for me would have taken me away from that into a more "political" role which I knew was beyond my abilities. I never knew when to keep my mouth shut
Always worked for myself after that.
I could be persuaded to take on one or two, but i wouldn't want a team of 12 highly educated and sharp professionals as my first line management job.
Edited by Monkeylegend on Tuesday 18th June 08:51
I like that, just not the line management paperwork and stuff...
witko999 said:
carguy45 said:
I read an article about the odd person who stepped out of this cycle and has moved to a remote Island somewhere where they've no bills to pay, catch or grow their own food, and live a seemingly tranquil and content existence - albeit without the 'luxuries' we work for, but also without the stresses. Not sure yet if they're enlightened or crazy.
That's true but it's just brainwashing really. From age 4 until we leave university we're just being trained to become taxpayers.Enlightened, definitely enlightened....
I think part of the problem is the subtle (and not so subtle) push to spend, spend, spend…... get a newer car, bigger house, nicer holiday …. What the above has proven to us, is that in reality, it can come at such a high physical/emotional/relationship cost, never mind the financials, that a surprising number on here think that it is no longer worth it -I’ll be honest guys, for PH, I am (pleasantly?) surprised at this….
I was told year ago “money should give you options, if it doesn’t, you are doing it wrong…”
If you think about it, what do most people do with extra money? Move to a bigger house, better car, holidays etc… they just increase the leverage, and as mentioned above, now must work even harder for it.
When I paid my mortgage off, the next comment from friends was usually, “you can afford to move to a bigger house now…” err…. I’m 51, single, I live in a 3-bed semi, with a nice big garden, how much space do I actually need?
The other con is qualifications and education. Get qualified, degree etc… set for life… not any more.
Academia are of his mindset, as it supports their own cause. There are plenty of other skills that are prerequired to make it out there. People skills, learning to delegate, plan a project, the list is endless
Did I really need to learn the “3 field system” 3 times….?
My workplace, like most offices, has a contingent of determined 'climbers'. From the outside it looks a bit cringe. I don't know if it's a problem that I view it that way, and from my partisan position I don't know whether that'd be categorized as a 'me' problem or a 'them' problem... but it's not for me.
I am still technical at the moment. Projects come and go, sometimes autonomous, sometimes heading up a small group. There is a natural pressure to progress into project management. I told boss man that I liked the nuts and bolts of it all and wanted to be a technical expert and he looked a bit bemused to be honest.
I am still technical at the moment. Projects come and go, sometimes autonomous, sometimes heading up a small group. There is a natural pressure to progress into project management. I told boss man that I liked the nuts and bolts of it all and wanted to be a technical expert and he looked a bit bemused to be honest.
bucksmanuk said:
Enlightened, definitely enlightened....
a surprising number on here think that it is no longer worth it -I’ll be honest guys, for PH, I am (pleasantly?) surprised at this….
I think there are a lot more of us on piston heads than you might believe. Just the rat racers are a lot more vocal about it, we just quietly lurk in the backgrounds until a thread like this comes along!a surprising number on here think that it is no longer worth it -I’ll be honest guys, for PH, I am (pleasantly?) surprised at this….
Best thread I've read on here for ages and has certainly been pleasing that it's not just me and I'm not just a lazy t
t! (Well...)I’m 43 and not at all ambitious now. I was in my 20’s and early 30’s but increasing stress and lack of work/life put a massive dent in that. Up until 2 years ago I managed a team of 12 people in Investment management operations. The team was largely young and 60/40 female to male split and the sheer amount on immaturity, b!tchiness, politics etc was mind blowing. I took an internal move for a year before being made redundant in Sept last year. Took a contract role for 6 months in Jan which was a breath of fresh air, giving me my own space, ability to just concentrate on my own job and not worry about managing others. This led to a new perm role, again for an investment manager but earning 10 a year more than the manager role with less responsibility, less politics, a more varied and interesting role and decent hours.
I’ve no real interest in moving up the career ladder unless the role really interests and benefits me, though I am lucky as working in the city even a basic wage is similar to a professional in other areas of the country. Eg/ my old team of mid to late 20s client service administrators – many of whom were thick as, were on circa 50k a year each to do roles they didn’t (and likely never will) fully understand.
As long as I’ve a decent pension and work life balance plus enough to give me a reasonably comfortable life then I’m happy.
I’ve no real interest in moving up the career ladder unless the role really interests and benefits me, though I am lucky as working in the city even a basic wage is similar to a professional in other areas of the country. Eg/ my old team of mid to late 20s client service administrators – many of whom were thick as, were on circa 50k a year each to do roles they didn’t (and likely never will) fully understand.
As long as I’ve a decent pension and work life balance plus enough to give me a reasonably comfortable life then I’m happy.
sjabrown said:
There is a law of diminishing returns climbing higher and higher up the ladder. I made some sacrifices through my 20s and am now in a position where I have no further career ambition (GP with half share in a small surgery). My aim now is to be more content in life.
Pah, just a GP. If you showed proper ambition you could have been a proper (hospital) doctor. 
I'm not ambitious really, certainly not in the career sense - I mainly wanted to make enough money to be able to do/gain a specific set of things which meant I worked quite hard (relatively) in my late 20s and early 30s - Now almost 35 and seem to have lost any and all ambition and most days just want to sell all my possessions to live a simple and mortgage free existence - What's stopping me is the thought of getting to retirement and not having any money or assets to enjoy that... It is a shame that Western Society is structured so that you spend all your best years (Physically at least) frantically trying to accumulate wealth to ensure comfort in an old age that you might never see.
Nothing new in that moan though, first world problems and all that.
Nothing new in that moan though, first world problems and all that.
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