Masterchef 2013

[Mastodon2]

dazco said:

Why would you think any of this? Are you in the catering industry?

Not anymore. I've worked in restaurants, though never actually as a chef, so I did talk to the chefs there. I know people who left school to work as chefs, and some of the people I have worked with at various other jobs had been chefs in previous roles. I can't say it's true "first hand" experience, because as I say, I'm not a chef and never have been, I can only form my opinion on what I've seen, the opinions of the chefs or ex-chef's I've talked to and what I've read and seen in various media forms.

[Dan_1981]

Larkin was lucky but Saira never really learnt or moved in from day one - good flavorsome food, but no finesse.

Larkin had a couple of bad rounds, and his confidence has taken a hell of a kicking but his earlier stuff was good.

[430T]

Sairah pushed her luck too far with the timing IMO, I also struggle to see how she would cope as a professional chef.

Larkin, very lucky that Sairah struggled today, and I'm positive that he dropped that Souffle on purpose.

Dale and Natalie I think are the two potential winners here, Dale has had some very good dishes, but also some very poor dishes and it will be interesting to see what he pulls out of the bag for the final. Natalie I think is the overall strongest in the competition and she has the greatest chance of winning this.

[Moominho]

430T said:

I'm positive that he dropped that Souffle on purpose.

Yeah I thought that too.

[dazco]

Mastodon2 said:

Not anymore. I've worked in restaurants, though never actually as a chef, so I did talk to the chefs there. I know people who left school to work as chefs, and some of the people I have worked with at various other jobs had been chefs in previous roles. I can't say it's true "first hand" experience, because as I say, I'm not a chef and never have been, I can only form my opinion on what I've seen, the opinions of the chefs or ex-chef's I've talked to and what I've read and seen in various media forms.

So people have honestly said to you that adult chefs, or chef wannabes, are being paid four pounds an hour by reputable kitchens. And that some Polish adults are working in the self same respectable kitchens for less than that?

Does that not strike you as odd?

Does it not strike you as odd that a chef or restaurant owner could see such talent, as displayed by a Masterchef winner, and insist that this person does the washing up like some average school leaver? Who would gain by that?

I think your ex-chef friends are winding you up or playing the 'big I am'.

[Dick Dastardly]

It will be interesting to see if Dale does enter the restaurant business after this, which he said on MC is his desire. The show stated he is a recruitment consultant but he actually owns quite a successful little recruitment agency that is probably making him quite a bit of money. When I heard he was on the show I was surprised he had the time, so maybe he is really serious?

Since january, there has been a rumour going around the Cardiff business scene that he won it.

[Heff]

dazco said:

So people have honestly said to you that adult chefs, or chef wannabes, are being paid four pounds an hour by reputable kitchens. And that some Polish adults are working in the self same respectable kitchens for less than that?

Does that not strike you as odd?

Does it not strike you as odd that a chef or restaurant owner could see such talent, as displayed by a Masterchef winner, and insist that this person does the washing up like some average school leaver? Who would gain by that?

I think your ex-chef friends are winding you up or playing the 'big I am'.

If you read up about the previous winners you'll see that MasterChef is not a fast track to a career in food. I read somewhere about one of the producers telling Druv Baker to not be disheartened 6 months after his win when he was sitting around in his pants unemployed. His website still says he wants to make it in the food industry not that he has. So far the only winners to have restaurants are Thomisina and Matt Follas, and he's struggling.

Very few people make lots of money from restaurants , and even fewer chefs do. MasterChef winners would get laughed out of the door if that was all they had on their CV, they'd be expected to prove themselves just like anyone else. The internet is telling me that the average salary for a chef is £19,000. Not exactly £4 per hour, but not huge either.

[SPR2]

I think Dale has taken critisism and come out better for it and seems to not get quite so stressed as Natalie but both producing some very good dishes. Larkin, well not too bothered about the dropped dish, but will he come up with something outstanding in the next round?

[Mastodon2]

dazco said:

So people have honestly said to you that adult chefs, or chef wannabes, are being paid four pounds an hour by reputable kitchens. And that some Polish adults are working in the self same respectable kitchens for less than that?

Does that not strike you as odd?

Does it not strike you as odd that a chef or restaurant owner could see such talent, as displayed by a Masterchef winner, and insist that this person does the washing up like some average school leaver? Who would gain by that?

I think your ex-chef friends are winding you up or playing the 'big I am'.

I've worked in a variety of places, and while you might not find immigrants of questionable visa status working under the radar for buttons in big name place, you would be extremely naive to think that this doesn't go on in many smaller establishments. Building a career as a chef is not about winning a cookery contest here and there, even a televised one, and jumping into a kitchen to do be a top chef. Masterchef is not The X Factor. To be a chef, you need to be prepared to learn from the ground up, preferably with a decent grade in some formal culinary qualification to set yourself above the crowd. And yes, a lot of the time, you would be competing with foreigners who will be prepared to work for less money, for longer and less sociable hours. While the big name hotel and restaurant brands would likely not want to be caught out underpaying their staff, I've worked in, and with people from reputable chains and restaurants to know that most of the chefs don't take home much pay, in many cases less than the front of house staff who serve the food, and that is not even including tipping.

Consider also, that Masterchef is an amateur competition, and cooking up your own great ideas to win a cookery contest is nothing like actual kitchen work. The majority of chefs don't get to run riot and experiment, the head and sous chefs set the menu and you cook to what they ask of you. While there might be occasions where you can use creativity, such a presenting a dish to the head chef when they are looking for things to add to the menu, working as a professional chef (unless you own your own restaurant, or are high enough up the ladder in the sort of establishment that allows it) is not about indulging your creativity, or your "exploring a passion of food", or any other Masterchef-esque notions. Its about cooking what the customer wants, from a menu you more than likely had no hand in setting, and doing it consistently and getting the timings right. If you open your own restaurant then great, go nuts, you can do what you want and see how that works out - even the very best chefs seem to exist on a financial knife-edge, if you'll excuse the pun, because it's such a hard industry to succeed in. The majority of chefs do not have the luxury of treating their day job like a some magical foodie adventure. Don't be fooled by the romaticised version of working in food you see on many tv programs.

[Granville]

SPR2 said:

I think Dale has taken critisism and come out better for it and seems to not get quite so stressed as Natalie but both producing some very good dishes. Larkin, well not too bothered about the dropped dish, but will he come up with something outstanding in the next round?

1. Larkin seems to have gone backwards with his dishes in the last two episodes. Sairah was due to go, only so many curry dishes you can get away with without cooking any other type of food. I liked her but a little one trick pony.

Loving Natalie though, she's a real little gem.

[Bonefish Blues]

Granville said:

1. Larkin seems to have gone backwards with his dishes in the last two episodes. Sairah was due to go, only so many curry dishes you can get away with without cooking any other type of food. I liked her but a little one trick pony.

Loving Natalie though, she's a real little gem.

Natalie, yesterday

[Oakey]

The Bond girl episode was the best argument against high Definition I've ever seen. I cannot even begin to imagine how much worse it'd have been in 4k.

Last nights episode showed us a food critics opinion is pretty worthless.

[430T]

Moominho said:

430T said:

I'm positive that he dropped that Souffle on purpose.

Yeah I thought that too.

It just seems to me that he noticed it was quite a st one and couldn't quite face sending it out.

[Baryonyx]

dazco said:

So people have honestly said to you that adult chefs, or chef wannabes, are being paid four pounds an hour by reputable kitchens. And that some Polish adults are working in the self same respectable kitchens for less than that?

Does that not strike you as odd?


I think your ex-chef friends are winding you up or playing the 'big I am'.

Your naivety regarding this industry is touching.

[dazco]

Baryonyx said:

Your naivety regarding this industry is touching.

Please don't patronise me.

Can you please tell me of one reputable kitchen that pays full adults four pounds and hour? And foreigners even less?

[dazco]

Mastodon2 said:

I've worked in a variety of places, and while you might not find immigrants of questionable visa status working under the radar for buttons in big name place, you would be extremely naive to think that this doesn't go on in many smaller establishments. Building a career as a chef is not about winning a cookery contest here and there, even a televised one, and jumping into a kitchen to do be a top chef. Masterchef is not The X Factor. To be a chef, you need to be prepared to learn from the ground up, preferably with a decent grade in some formal culinary qualification to set yourself above the crowd. And yes, a lot of the time, you would be competing with foreigners who will be prepared to work for less money, for longer and less sociable hours. While the big name hotel and restaurant brands would likely not want to be caught out underpaying their staff, I've worked in, and with people from reputable chains and restaurants to know that most of the chefs don't take home much pay, in many cases less than the front of house staff who serve the food, and that is not even including tipping.

Consider also, that Masterchef is an amateur competition, and cooking up your own great ideas to win a cookery contest is nothing like actual kitchen work. The majority of chefs don't get to run riot and experiment, the head and sous chefs set the menu and you cook to what they ask of you. While there might be occasions where you can use creativity, such a presenting a dish to the head chef when they are looking for things to add to the menu, working as a professional chef (unless you own your own restaurant, or are high enough up the ladder in the sort of establishment that allows it) is not about indulging your creativity, or your "exploring a passion of food", or any other Masterchef-esque notions. Its about cooking what the customer wants, from a menu you more than likely had no hand in setting, and doing it consistently and getting the timings right. If you open your own restaurant then great, go nuts, you can do what you want and see how that works out - even the very best chefs seem to exist on a financial knife-edge, if you'll excuse the pun, because it's such a hard industry to succeed in. The majority of chefs do not have the luxury of treating their day job like a some magical foodie adventure. Don't be fooled by the romaticised version of working in food you see on many tv programs.

Many good chefs are self taught, I don't know where you get the notion that you need "a decent grade in some formal culinary qualification to set yourself above the crowd".
Heston Blumenthal
Thomas Keller
Raymond Blanc are just three in a very long list of successful self taught foodies.

Here is a list of previous winners and what they are doing now, and it seems they were all fast tracked into the food industry because of their win.

Shelina Permalloo – 2012
Following her victory in the last edition of MasterChef, mango-loving former charity worker Shelina has been sharing her take on Mauritian cooking on TV, at events such as the BBC Good Food Show and on the menu at Michelin-starred restaurant Benares

Tim Anderson – 2011
The American-born craft beer bar manager wowed John and Gregg by using elements of Japanese cooking in his dishes. Since he picked up the crown, he’s had stints at Le Gavroche and the Fat Duck and been an ambassador for Malaysian food. He's opening his own restaurant, called Nanban and specialising in southern Japanese food, in Shoreditch, London this spring.

Dhruv Baker – 2010
The Mexican-born, Indian-raised Baker quit his job in media sales to take part in the 2010 series. Since his win he has been working with Michel Roux Jr at Le Gavroche, at De Librije in Holland and also cooking for private events. He’s in the process of setting up his own restaurant.

Mat Follas – 2009
After winning the title, New Zealand-born Mat found it difficult to raise the financial backing to open a restaurant so he went back to his job in IT. But he persevered and finally achieved his dream when he opened The Wild Garlic in Beaminster, Dorset in June 2009.

James Nathan – 2008
After his victory, former barrister James spent time honing his craft at Bentleys Oyster Bar in Piccadilly and at the Michael Caine-owned Bath Priory in Bath. He then moved to work as a chef at Rick Stein’s Seafood Restaurant in Padstow and is now setting up a catering business.

Steven Wallis – 2007
The former fashion strategist packed up his bags and travelled the world having culinary adventures. He’s put that knowledge to good use as a writer, private chef and flavour consultant.

Peter Bayless – 2006
The former advertising man wrote a book about winning the 2006 edition of MasterChef entitled My Father Could Only Boil Cornflakes before going on to work at Le Gavroche. He now cooks at a variety of UK and French restaurants, writes for food magazines and teaches at cookery school

Thomasina Miers – 2005
Freelance food writer Thomasina continued her media career after winning the 2005 series, but this time she was the star of her own Channel 4 programmes and cookery books. She also had a spell at Petersham Nurseries, under the tutelage of Skye Gyngell, before she opened a Mexican restaurant in London called Wahaca. One restaurant has since expanded into six branches and a street kitchen.

[Mastodon2]

I'm seeing a lot of "stints" in there, but when I start seeing some serious track record of running a business, not just "setting up" or "opening" something, I'll believe the hype.

You mention 3 people who are successful in the food world but are self-taught. However, these did not try to enter the restaurant business in the last few years. Now, with dozens of young chefs leaving every college in the country with various basic qualifications in cooking, how would you sort the CV pile? You've got 50 applicants for an entry level job in your kitchen, some of them have a qualification which should prove at least basic competency, the others have nothing. How do you choose who is going to come in for an interview and a trial? Do you pick the ones who have already proven something, or do you gamble on the completely unproven ones? I'm not saying that you need a qualification to be a good chef, nothing of the sort, but getting started in the industry is about getting your foot in the door, and having some sort of provenance about your ability will get you the opportunities. It's 2013, there are hundreds of thousands of qualified, unemployed young people desperate for work, there are no golden tickets.

One thing you can be sure of, is that the physical endurance of being a chef is not to be underestimated. Working long shifts on your feet, in hot, humid environments can be brutal. Your previous employment history as a recruitment consultant, accountant, or even an astronaut would count for little to nothing, as you have not proved your ability to hack the pace. Winning a tv cooking show is not proof of this.

Also, you are living in a complete fantasy world if you think that some establishments (not the top restaurants or chains, more than likely) are not employing immigrants of questionable visa status and underpaying them. This doesn't just happen in the restaurant industry, but also in many other kinds of work. Imagine yourself in these people's shoes, they aren't in the country legally so they can't get benefits, they will take what they can get and there will always be plenty of businesses willing to exploit these people for cheap labour.

[zygalski]

I came in to work one day at the 3 AA rosette large country house hotel where I worked as a chef de partie to find that we had to do all our own washing up & cleaning. The 4 Polish porters who had worked there for a year or so had been arrested. Never saw them again.

[dazco]

zygalski said:

I came in to work one day at the 3 AA rosette large country house hotel where I worked as a chef de partie to find that we had to do all our own washing up & cleaning. The 4 Polish porters who had worked there for a year or so had been arrested. Never saw them again.

Is that relevant?

[Baryonyx]

dazco said:

Please don't patronise me.

Can you please tell me of one reputable kitchen that pays full adults four pounds and hour? And foreigners even less?

I could, but I wouldn't be doing the places any favours. And it would also contravene PH name and shame rules. In any event, I think you've derailed this thread enough. I've worked in the industry, and the aforementioned pot washer - prep chef - bar chef - sous chef - exec chef - head chef was the usual hierarchy. Not to mention that, if you wanted in, you needed qualification at the door. Otherwise, the only real way to do it was to start pot washing and hope to convince the manager or head chef to give you a chance to get your qualifications on the job. Everyone has to start somewhere in the kitchen, and if you want to cook it starts with washing and peeling spuds!