Avengers: Endgame plot chat
Discussion
kowalski655 said:
Stan Lee should have been at the funeral though
They filmed it quite recently and I imagine didn't want to do a CG Stan, everyone else was there for real, which is an incredible logistical feat. Interestingly they shot a wedding and a funeral scene in case of leaks, only RDJ had the whole, correct script, the rest mostly just had their own scenes. p1stonhead said:
Can someone clarify the ending with Cap? He went back in time, but never returned, but knew the date of the funeral so old version of him went along to see the guys who just sent him back in time?
Is that right?
Yes, and sneak in, sit on a bench with his back to them, hoping no one would spot the rather enormous timeline contradiction his appearance had just created. Is that right?
Leithen said:
Yes, and sneak in, sit on a bench with his back to them, hoping no one would spot the rather enormous timeline contradiction his appearance had just created.
There is a theory that he grabbed some more Pim Particles when he went back to 1970 to return the stone. They clearly showed plenty in the cabinet. ashleyman said:
To address the Infinity Stones points.
The Infinity Gauntlet used in Infinity War was deigned and built with the stones in mind, Thanos snapped without major injury, it was able to survive the snap AND the destruction of the stones whilst Thanos was injured. (Remember, the gauntlet was in tact but empty when they went to the Garden).
As for Stark Gauntlet; I imagine they took the gauntlet when they left the garden planet where it was studied before they gave up as they didn't have the stones.
When Hulk snapped his right side was toast but the Stark Gauntlet wasn't damaged. When Tony snapped the gauntlet was damaged and Tony died.
As for humans handling the stones. The stones are powerful and usually need devices for them to be used properly. At least that's how they've mostly been shown throughout the movies so far.
I'm not quite sure how you explain the humans being able to hold the stones in Endgame though. It's conflicting all through the movies because we have Red Skull touching the tesseract and being banished to Vormir. He touched the device, not the stone. Then you have Loki handling the sceptre and he was fine. Thor & Loki used a device to house the tesseract to get them back to Asgard. Fury touches the tesseract when he puts it in a briefcase in Avengers 1 and he's fine. Peter Quill handled the Power Stone but he is celestial/human. Jane spends half of Thor Dark World with the Relity Stone inside her, survives. Time Stone is handled by ancient one and Doctor Strange without issue although it is floating.
FAT THOR was VFX. Old Cap was 95% VFX and 5% makeup.
The only stone that is dangerous to the touch is the power stone. And various Avengers were carrying the gauntlet, not the power stone separated from the gauntlet. The Infinity Gauntlet used in Infinity War was deigned and built with the stones in mind, Thanos snapped without major injury, it was able to survive the snap AND the destruction of the stones whilst Thanos was injured. (Remember, the gauntlet was in tact but empty when they went to the Garden).
As for Stark Gauntlet; I imagine they took the gauntlet when they left the garden planet where it was studied before they gave up as they didn't have the stones.
When Hulk snapped his right side was toast but the Stark Gauntlet wasn't damaged. When Tony snapped the gauntlet was damaged and Tony died.
As for humans handling the stones. The stones are powerful and usually need devices for them to be used properly. At least that's how they've mostly been shown throughout the movies so far.
I'm not quite sure how you explain the humans being able to hold the stones in Endgame though. It's conflicting all through the movies because we have Red Skull touching the tesseract and being banished to Vormir. He touched the device, not the stone. Then you have Loki handling the sceptre and he was fine. Thor & Loki used a device to house the tesseract to get them back to Asgard. Fury touches the tesseract when he puts it in a briefcase in Avengers 1 and he's fine. Peter Quill handled the Power Stone but he is celestial/human. Jane spends half of Thor Dark World with the Relity Stone inside her, survives. Time Stone is handled by ancient one and Doctor Strange without issue although it is floating.
FAT THOR was VFX. Old Cap was 95% VFX and 5% makeup.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 30th April 23:18
Thanos and the gauntlet suffered some damage with the first snap. Thanos’s right side was looking a lot worse for wear in the Garden, after he had destroyed the stones.
I watched this last night and while a very good film, I'm not in the same "AMAZING" boat as everyone else.
Conversely I thought the first two thirds where very good, killing Thanos but that not solving anything, people having difficulty moving on, the hollow earth and the whole timeline BTTF were superb. However I don't think the end climatic battle was as good as I was expecting.
I actually like the initial battle with Thanos and the original 3 heroes and yes the portals opening and ALL the Avengers turning up was an amazing YES moment but I thought the ensuing battle was a bit of a mess. Usually Marvel are very good at choreographing these big battles but this one felt far too rushed. OK they had a lot of characters to get in, too much probably so there were far too many blink and you'll miss it scenes and too much whizzing around and chaos, dare I say it but it all got a bit Micheal Bay-esque at times. Add in the forced girl power scene and it just wasn't as satisfying as I hoped it would be. There were a few standout moments of course, Cap and the Hammer, Thor with two hammers, basically when they took the time to slow it down a tad and concentrate on some of the characters rather than whizzing around at 100mph.
I also agree Chris Evans and RDJ stole the show, they both had some great scenes and the sacrifice by IM worked fantastically, I was expecting either one of the two to make the ultimate sacrifice but I guess it makes more sense for it to be IM as it completes his character arc brilliantly.
Fat Thor was brilliant at first but the gag outstayed it's welcome IMO. When he called the lightening he should have instantly gone back to ripped Thor as he does in the comics, missed opportunity I felt. I also agree with another poster who said he has gone too far down the comedy scale for me.
The most disappointing character for me was Hulk tbh. He's one of my favourite characters so to see him reduced to a bit part\gag reel sideline was lame. I kept expecting him to Hulk out the character could have been saved if he did that but for some bizarre reason they completely ignore him in the final battle. Huge missed opportunity for me.
Also apart from Rocket the other GoTG were woefully underused. Yes I know they were dust for a large part of the movie but Quill and the others were barely in it.
Old Steve breaks the logic they established throughout the film.
So overall a very good film and a good way to wrap up some of the important character arcs but poor service to a lot of the others. I understand even 3 hours would not have been enough to do them all justice but still can't help feeling some of them got short changed. It's very good but certainly not the very best of Marvel output, I'd rate both AA and IW above this.
8/10
Conversely I thought the first two thirds where very good, killing Thanos but that not solving anything, people having difficulty moving on, the hollow earth and the whole timeline BTTF were superb. However I don't think the end climatic battle was as good as I was expecting.
I actually like the initial battle with Thanos and the original 3 heroes and yes the portals opening and ALL the Avengers turning up was an amazing YES moment but I thought the ensuing battle was a bit of a mess. Usually Marvel are very good at choreographing these big battles but this one felt far too rushed. OK they had a lot of characters to get in, too much probably so there were far too many blink and you'll miss it scenes and too much whizzing around and chaos, dare I say it but it all got a bit Micheal Bay-esque at times. Add in the forced girl power scene and it just wasn't as satisfying as I hoped it would be. There were a few standout moments of course, Cap and the Hammer, Thor with two hammers, basically when they took the time to slow it down a tad and concentrate on some of the characters rather than whizzing around at 100mph.
I also agree Chris Evans and RDJ stole the show, they both had some great scenes and the sacrifice by IM worked fantastically, I was expecting either one of the two to make the ultimate sacrifice but I guess it makes more sense for it to be IM as it completes his character arc brilliantly.
Fat Thor was brilliant at first but the gag outstayed it's welcome IMO. When he called the lightening he should have instantly gone back to ripped Thor as he does in the comics, missed opportunity I felt. I also agree with another poster who said he has gone too far down the comedy scale for me.
The most disappointing character for me was Hulk tbh. He's one of my favourite characters so to see him reduced to a bit part\gag reel sideline was lame. I kept expecting him to Hulk out the character could have been saved if he did that but for some bizarre reason they completely ignore him in the final battle. Huge missed opportunity for me.
Also apart from Rocket the other GoTG were woefully underused. Yes I know they were dust for a large part of the movie but Quill and the others were barely in it.
Old Steve breaks the logic they established throughout the film.
So overall a very good film and a good way to wrap up some of the important character arcs but poor service to a lot of the others. I understand even 3 hours would not have been enough to do them all justice but still can't help feeling some of them got short changed. It's very good but certainly not the very best of Marvel output, I'd rate both AA and IW above this.
8/10
Guvernator said:
The most disappointing character for me was Hulk tbh. He's one of my favourite characters so to see him reduced to a bit part\gag reel sideline was lame. I kept expecting him to Hulk out the character could have been saved if he did that but for some bizarre reason they completely ignore him in the final battle. Huge missed opportunity for me.
Film Hulk has consistently been underpowered compared to comic Hulk. However Film Hulk's power does come from his rage (like Comic Hulk) and once he became Prof Hulk he was unable or unwilling to summon that rage (eg the notional bashing of a car when Prof Hulk went to 2012). For my money it would have been out of character for Prof Hulk to have raged out in the final battle. Add to which (a) he was injured badly by the gauntlet (his right arm was still in a sling in the final scenes); and (b) he would have lost the rematch with Thanos anyway (Film Hulk lost first time in IW because he is a brawler and Thanos was a very fast and skilled boxer who out thought him and then out hit him. Banner is not a trained fighter, so without rage and without fighting skills would have been toasted).
FWIW I suspect that the Prof Hulk incarnation means that we will see Hulk in future films. Ruffalo's age/visual appearance won't matter because he will be mo-cap'd and CGI'd into the same Prof Hulk we saw in Endgame ad infinitum.
The holding up of the rubble was a nice nod to the Secret Wars comic though.
Greg66 said:
ashleyman said:
To address the Infinity Stones points.
The Infinity Gauntlet used in Infinity War was deigned and built with the stones in mind, Thanos snapped without major injury, it was able to survive the snap AND the destruction of the stones whilst Thanos was injured. (Remember, the gauntlet was in tact but empty when they went to the Garden).
As for Stark Gauntlet; I imagine they took the gauntlet when they left the garden planet where it was studied before they gave up as they didn't have the stones.
When Hulk snapped his right side was toast but the Stark Gauntlet wasn't damaged. When Tony snapped the gauntlet was damaged and Tony died.
As for humans handling the stones. The stones are powerful and usually need devices for them to be used properly. At least that's how they've mostly been shown throughout the movies so far.
I'm not quite sure how you explain the humans being able to hold the stones in Endgame though. It's conflicting all through the movies because we have Red Skull touching the tesseract and being banished to Vormir. He touched the device, not the stone. Then you have Loki handling the sceptre and he was fine. Thor & Loki used a device to house the tesseract to get them back to Asgard. Fury touches the tesseract when he puts it in a briefcase in Avengers 1 and he's fine. Peter Quill handled the Power Stone but he is celestial/human. Jane spends half of Thor Dark World with the Relity Stone inside her, survives. Time Stone is handled by ancient one and Doctor Strange without issue although it is floating.
FAT THOR was VFX. Old Cap was 95% VFX and 5% makeup.
The only stone that is dangerous to the touch is the power stone. And various Avengers were carrying the gauntlet, not the power stone separated from the gauntlet. The Infinity Gauntlet used in Infinity War was deigned and built with the stones in mind, Thanos snapped without major injury, it was able to survive the snap AND the destruction of the stones whilst Thanos was injured. (Remember, the gauntlet was in tact but empty when they went to the Garden).
As for Stark Gauntlet; I imagine they took the gauntlet when they left the garden planet where it was studied before they gave up as they didn't have the stones.
When Hulk snapped his right side was toast but the Stark Gauntlet wasn't damaged. When Tony snapped the gauntlet was damaged and Tony died.
As for humans handling the stones. The stones are powerful and usually need devices for them to be used properly. At least that's how they've mostly been shown throughout the movies so far.
I'm not quite sure how you explain the humans being able to hold the stones in Endgame though. It's conflicting all through the movies because we have Red Skull touching the tesseract and being banished to Vormir. He touched the device, not the stone. Then you have Loki handling the sceptre and he was fine. Thor & Loki used a device to house the tesseract to get them back to Asgard. Fury touches the tesseract when he puts it in a briefcase in Avengers 1 and he's fine. Peter Quill handled the Power Stone but he is celestial/human. Jane spends half of Thor Dark World with the Relity Stone inside her, survives. Time Stone is handled by ancient one and Doctor Strange without issue although it is floating.
FAT THOR was VFX. Old Cap was 95% VFX and 5% makeup.
Edited by ashleyman on Tuesday 30th April 23:18
Thanos and the gauntlet suffered some damage with the first snap. Thanos’s right side was looking a lot worse for wear in the Garden, after he had destroyed the stones.
They've not been consistent with how the stones work through the movies.
Yeah I understand the reasoning for it however Professor Hulk does Hulk out, in fact his base strength is stronger than normal Hulk, it's just that he can't really "rage up" as such. I think it would have been a nice nod to fans for him to get so angry at something that his Professor Hulk persona is overwhelmed and we get proper Hulk for a little while. Alternatively using the Gauntlet could have been a great way of powering him up and\or pushing him over the edge.
I just think as a fan of the character, it was perfectly setup for him to have a great comeback and go round two with Thanos rather then going with the pussy Hulk angle. Most unsatisfactory for me personally.
I just think as a fan of the character, it was perfectly setup for him to have a great comeback and go round two with Thanos rather then going with the pussy Hulk angle. Most unsatisfactory for me personally.
Guvernator said:
Usually Marvel are very good at choreographing these big battles but this one felt far too rushed. OK they had a lot of characters to get in, too much probably so there were far too many blink and you'll miss it scenes and too much whizzing around and chaos, dare I say it but it all got a bit Micheal Bay-esque at times. Add in the forced girl power scene and it just wasn't as satisfying as I hoped it would be. There were a few standout moments of course, Cap and the Hammer, Thor with two hammers, basically when they took the time to slow it down a tad and concentrate on some of the characters rather than whizzing around at 100mph.
It's very good but certainly not the very best of Marvel output, I'd rate both AA and IW above this.
8/10
My thoughts exactly. I almost fell asleep during the big fight as there was too much going on to keep up with it lost my attention.It's very good but certainly not the very best of Marvel output, I'd rate both AA and IW above this.
8/10
It is the main reason why i don't like CGI, you end up with that kind of thing.
Greg66 said:
I guess that is one of the problems of having to deal with so many characters. Each character will have their own fans, and the fans will want that character to have a particular direction. Someone is bound to end up disappointed.
It's more the bait and switch that disappointed tbh. All the signs were massively goalposting a Hulk comeback and Hulk vs Thanos round two would have been a big hit with fans IMO, most were crying out for it, considering the fan service they have given so far, just seems like a bit of an own goal. Not saying he should have beat Thanos single handed but it would have been nice for him to get some proper licks in this time and would have made a more satisfying character arc IMO.Anyway I get that not every character will get the full treatment, they'd need another 2 hours added on but then that's always the headache with these big ensemble ones. I just think they got the balance better in the previous Avengers films.
ashleyman said:
If the only stone that is dangerous to the touch is the power stone how do you explain red skull being banished to Vormir?
I don't. [nerd]
The Red Skull didn't touch the space stone though. He touched the tessaract, which was a containment device for the space stone. He says in IW that he sought the stones and was banished to Vormir far having done so. That suggests some form of moral judgment was passed upon him and/or upon his reasons for seeking the stones, and that he was found wanting. It is possible (read: speculation) that the tessaract was created in Asgard by Odin and carried a protective enchantment which the Red Skull's nefarious ambition triggered.
If so, the apparent inconsistency is why was Thanos able to hold the tessaract and then release the space stone (opening of IW) without similarly ending up on Vormir. Perhaps (again, speculation) because the enchantment recognised that would help him acquire another stone, or perhaps because Odin's enchantment died with him (much like the force imprisoning Hela did).
Jane Foster was fused with the reality stone and didn't die (though the Asgardian medics said her prognosis wasn't rosy. The cat swallowed the tessaract in Cap Marvel and was fine, and loads of people handled the tessaract without swallowing it. Loads of people handled Loki's staff, containing the mind stone, with no problems. Hawkeye and Thanos, having "won" the soul stone, were both able to hold it in their hands. Everyone who came into direct contact with the power stone seemed unhappy about it (Starlord, Thor's head, the Collector's assistant).
[/nerd]
Ultimately I don't know and don't care. I prefer films that leave points open, and therefore lead to unresolvable discussion, than ones that present all the necessary information laid out neatly for the viewer.
Wrathalanche said:
Did anyone else find it totally bizarre that Thanos was just kicking around in a scruffy t-shirt in the Garden?
No that's pretty much how Iwar ended. I liked the contrast between IWar Thanos who was older, more complicated and emotionally drained and the younger fresher Thanos who hadn't been through the trials of hsi older self, didn't know or care about these guys he was fighting and was perfectly happy to f
k everyone up without a thought.Wrathalanche said:
Did anyone else find it totally bizarre that Thanos was just kicking around in a scruffy t-shirt in the Garden?
Nope as far as he was concerned his destiny had been fulfilled. He even destroyed the stones to prevent temptation for him or anyone else. He didn't want to rule the galaxy, he wanted to make it "better" by wiping out half the living creatures then live out his days in quite solitude. He stated this several times.Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff