Mine hunter collision in Gulf
Discussion
hidetheelephants said:
Not really; the Hunt class are basically a GRP version of the wooden Ton class. Something has gone wrong with the gearshift or if it's controllable pitch the pitch control, manoeuvring these things with no wind is easy enough so unlikely to be a handling error.
From the video, it looked like she had no drive at all from the moment the video starts - just coasts backwards until the bang.Edited by hidetheelephants on Sunday 21st January 13:21
AW111 said:
hidetheelephants said:
Not really; the Hunt class are basically a GRP version of the wooden Ton class. Something has gone wrong with the gearshift or if it's controllable pitch the pitch control, manoeuvring these things with no wind is easy enough so unlikely to be a handling error.
From the video, it looked like she had no drive at all from the moment the video starts - just coasts backwards until the bang.Edited by hidetheelephants on Sunday 21st January 13:21
AW111 said:
From the video, it looked like she had no drive at all from the moment the video starts - just coasts backwards until the bang.
Hard to see, but there does appear to be prop wash as stern way is gathered(around 6 seconds in) and there's definitely prop wash after the collision.I'll be surprised if that hull's worth repairing. Massive damage.
As regards control or otherwise, it seems to me they would have sounded a klaxon or other audible warning before the collision if they'd known things weren't under control. And I've previously mentioned how late the smoke from funnel increased as power was finally applied.
If you watch the people on deck you can see everything is calm and relaxed right up to impact, again suggesting it was completely unexpected.
As regards control or otherwise, it seems to me they would have sounded a klaxon or other audible warning before the collision if they'd known things weren't under control. And I've previously mentioned how late the smoke from funnel increased as power was finally applied.
If you watch the people on deck you can see everything is calm and relaxed right up to impact, again suggesting it was completely unexpected.
hidetheelephants said:
Hard to see, but there does appear to be prop wash as stern way is gathered(around 6 seconds in) and there's definitely prop wash after the collision.
The gearbox stayed in reverse when the captain thought it was forward?Initial gentle throttle to kill rearward momentum sped it up a little, then when collision was imminent he gunned the throttle?
Tango13 said:
Ityre said:
If they had contractors onboard working on the propulsion they should test the ahead / astern in a open area well away from traffic, if there was issues then they should employ a tug to help them alongside, but if your going to screw up and you may as well screw up in style and take out two vessels 
I can remember the media trying to make a big story out of the first woman Captain in the RN bumping her minesweeper whilst mooring quite a few years back, all the old salts in the local Royal Naval Association were taking the piss, not for bumping a ship but for only bumping a minesweeper. The general consensus of opinion was as the RN had been crashing ships since before Nelson so it's only news if you bump a cruiser or bigger and minesweepers were 'Tupperware Navy' anyway and didn't really count
When I was serving on Ark Royal a Harrier hit the ship. We needed a new radar but the Harrier was a lost (pilot ok though).
98elise said:
There have been quite a few crashes over the years. Ships hitting other ships, and ships hitting infrastructure and scenery that refused to give way
When I was serving on Ark Royal a Harrier hit the ship. We needed a new radar but the Harrier was a lost (pilot ok though).
The USN have had a run of collisions in the last few years.When I was serving on Ark Royal a Harrier hit the ship. We needed a new radar but the Harrier was a lost (pilot ok though).
AW111 said:
98elise said:
There have been quite a few crashes over the years. Ships hitting other ships, and ships hitting infrastructure and scenery that refused to give way
When I was serving on Ark Royal a Harrier hit the ship. We needed a new radar but the Harrier was a lost (pilot ok though).
The USN have had a run of collisions in the last few years.When I was serving on Ark Royal a Harrier hit the ship. We needed a new radar but the Harrier was a lost (pilot ok though).
The Battleship USS Wisconsin collided with the destroyer USS Eaton in May 1956.
By a stroke of good fortune, the US still had mothballed the never finished hull structure from the cancelled Iowa Class battleship USS Kentucky (BB-66) which had been launched but never had its superstructure built and fitted out, so the shipyard workers removed the complete front bow section from the unfinished Kentucky and refitted it to the Wisconsin after removing the damaged section.
Wiring fault had reverse where forward should have been hopefully someone gets the sack for that error.
greygoose said:
Wiring fault had reverse where forward should have been hopefully someone gets the sack for that error.
Surely remedial work like this gets checked and signed off.....!greygoose said:
Wiring fault had reverse where forward should have been hopefully someone gets the sack for that error.
I was almost right.aeropilot said:
greygoose said:
Wiring fault had reverse where forward should have been hopefully someone gets the sack for that error.
Surely remedial work like this gets checked and signed off.....!Eek! Reminds me of a problem I had on my own boat in Cowes harbour. I'd gone below to make a radio call to the marina following finishing the Round the Island Race a few years ago. Suddenly there was a load of shouting from the crew on deck so I ran up and took the wheel. We suddenly had "astern or nothing".
The gearbox had gone into astern, and then at that exact moment the linkage cable snapped, with the selector on the gearbox stuck in astern. Opening the throttle either ahead or astern just increased the power in astern, and of course there was no neutral either! There were certainly brown trousers for a few minutes going astern in a VERY crowded river, but I managed to spin the boat round narrowly missing the wall and the chain ferry and then head back up the river, with hundreds of boats wondering WTF the idiots on the Bavaria 32 were doing going along backwards!
Heading back to the mainland and our berth the next day was interesting. I said "ahead/astern/neutral" to someone on the cabin steps, who in turn shouted it down to the guy in the stern cabin who had his hand directly on the gearbox selector lever. Still managed to not hit anything though!
The gearbox had gone into astern, and then at that exact moment the linkage cable snapped, with the selector on the gearbox stuck in astern. Opening the throttle either ahead or astern just increased the power in astern, and of course there was no neutral either! There were certainly brown trousers for a few minutes going astern in a VERY crowded river, but I managed to spin the boat round narrowly missing the wall and the chain ferry and then head back up the river, with hundreds of boats wondering WTF the idiots on the Bavaria 32 were doing going along backwards!
Heading back to the mainland and our berth the next day was interesting. I said "ahead/astern/neutral" to someone on the cabin steps, who in turn shouted it down to the guy in the stern cabin who had his hand directly on the gearbox selector lever. Still managed to not hit anything though!
Ship manoeuvring frequently takes place close to other ships or immobile objects.
If there is a control issue it often isn’t possible to resolve immediately.
Black smoke from a funnel is as likely power suddenly coming off as going on.
Until we find out what actually happened my own thoughts are that there was a control failure which either disabled control of the propeller pitch once a kicj astern had been requested or that failed and put a large astern movement on.
Once the control failure had been spotted the first action is to switch to the back up control, once that failed de-clutch the shaft that failure occurred on.
If the de-clutch request also failed then someone quite rightly has some explaining to do, on top of the explanation already required for the initial control issue.
I had a situation years ago with a recently overhauled CPP system where it functioned perfectly in test but stuck full ahead once underway. The hydraulic control pressure that actuates the blades had been turned down as the service engineer was using the figures in the manual. It had been established during sea trials 25 years previously that this pressure was insufficient to move the blades at speed, and it was adjusted accordingly for that ship & her sister.
The manual was generic & this knowledge was lost over time.
So this could easily be a similar situation.
If there is a control issue it often isn’t possible to resolve immediately.
Black smoke from a funnel is as likely power suddenly coming off as going on.
Until we find out what actually happened my own thoughts are that there was a control failure which either disabled control of the propeller pitch once a kicj astern had been requested or that failed and put a large astern movement on.
Once the control failure had been spotted the first action is to switch to the back up control, once that failed de-clutch the shaft that failure occurred on.
If the de-clutch request also failed then someone quite rightly has some explaining to do, on top of the explanation already required for the initial control issue.
I had a situation years ago with a recently overhauled CPP system where it functioned perfectly in test but stuck full ahead once underway. The hydraulic control pressure that actuates the blades had been turned down as the service engineer was using the figures in the manual. It had been established during sea trials 25 years previously that this pressure was insufficient to move the blades at speed, and it was adjusted accordingly for that ship & her sister.
The manual was generic & this knowledge was lost over time.
So this could easily be a similar situation.
greygoose said:
Wiring fault had reverse where forward should have been hopefully someone gets the sack for that error.
Unbelievable if that is the cause.Post maintenance and pre-sea checks should’ve caught that long before it was manoeuvring anywhere near other vessels. Really basic stuff.
Article mentions a recent visit/inspection from MCTA - I wonder if they’ve asked for some sort machinery breakdown drill/demonstration and that’s a factor.
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