Star Wars: The Last Jedi (CONTAINS SPOILERS)
Discussion
LaurasOtherHalf said:
1/ Star Wars
2/ Empire
3/ Return Of The Jedi
4/ Rogue One
5/ The Force Awakens
6/ The Last Jedi
The Others...
To be honest the first four are pretty even with 5 and 6 just a little bit behind. The only things that put the reboots behind the original trilogy is the flippin' bouncing around that the stories do, there always seems to be 20 different stories going on with a million new characters who you never get to know as they get killed off for shock value.
Rogue One might even have been the worst for this but I still love it inspire of it.
I want to rank ROTJ higher but the Ewoks, Boba Fett's silly death and building a bigger Death Star outweigh the good parts. Even in the second trilogy Lucas had a lot of good ideas and created some great characters but as the films go on they try and get more and more complex and clever. I think film storytelling peaked in the 80s.2/ Empire
3/ Return Of The Jedi
4/ Rogue One
5/ The Force Awakens
6/ The Last Jedi
The Others...
To be honest the first four are pretty even with 5 and 6 just a little bit behind. The only things that put the reboots behind the original trilogy is the flippin' bouncing around that the stories do, there always seems to be 20 different stories going on with a million new characters who you never get to know as they get killed off for shock value.
Rogue One might even have been the worst for this but I still love it inspire of it.
Rumblestripe said:
Yup, my favourite bit is the desperate search through you tube vids for affirmation. 
I've been tripping across them actually (largely via this thread) and the affirmation is not a surprise.When the shills can come up with something better to justify themselves than 'you just don't get it' then I might start listening.
Halb said:
It'll be interesting to see if the prediction on Rian comes off.
It's a crazy world. You will know the franchise is wobbling when Quentin Tarantino's name starts getting mentioned....Edited by r11co on Friday 29th December 20:35
r11co said:
When the shills can come up with something better to justify themselves than 'you just don't get it' then I might start listening.
Yes, everyone that enjoyed it is a stooge from Disney...You either enjoyed it or you didn't. No-one is trying to convince you that you did enjoy it really and you don't need to find a Vlogger to explain your reasons to us.
Wife and i saw this yesterday,plot rehash upon plot rehash come on lets have something new please!
wifes comments said it all for me "they have killed it, i knew it half way through the film when i looked at the time to see how much longer it was going to drag on for"
We wont be going to watch anymore ST films at the cinema we will just wait until they come up on the telly
wifes comments said it all for me "they have killed it, i knew it half way through the film when i looked at the time to see how much longer it was going to drag on for"
We wont be going to watch anymore ST films at the cinema we will just wait until they come up on the telly
I went into this film with the best will in the world. TFA while it had a few issues was still very pretty good and Rogue 1 was even better. You couldn't even see the Disney influence that much in either so I had high hopes for TLJ. I'd add that when it comes to Sci-Fi films I'm not overly critical and will usually enjoy any old crap.
When I came out of this film I think I tried to delude myself that it wasn't that bad but over the next day or two I had to reluctantly admit to myself it was pretty poor. It was very similar to the process I went through after I watched The Phantom Menace.
I can understand lots of people like different things but usually there is a general consensus and I can usually work out why people might like a certain film. For instance the new Blade Runner didn't really work for me but I can definitely see why some people would like it as it's a very well made film.
However some films are just bad in too many ways, Prometheus being another fine example that I really struggle to work out how people are able to enjoy it, this is one of those films. There is just too much wrong with it, the absolutely gaping plot holes that are so silly they take you out of the movie, the inconsistent characters, the total disregard of previous Star Wars lore, the boring story, the total disregard of things set out in TFA, the laid on with a trowel political messages, the misplaced humour and the Disney-fication of it that it's very hard for me to understand how the critics and some people on this thread actually liked it.
Fans have been accused of overthinking things and over analysing it, the funny thing is you really don't need to do that much analysing to spot the glaring crapness of much of it. Like TPM it had maybe 2 or 3 stand out scenes which would amount to about 20-30 minutes of screen time, the rest of it was average at best to downright garbage in a lot of places.
When I came out of this film I think I tried to delude myself that it wasn't that bad but over the next day or two I had to reluctantly admit to myself it was pretty poor. It was very similar to the process I went through after I watched The Phantom Menace.
I can understand lots of people like different things but usually there is a general consensus and I can usually work out why people might like a certain film. For instance the new Blade Runner didn't really work for me but I can definitely see why some people would like it as it's a very well made film.
However some films are just bad in too many ways, Prometheus being another fine example that I really struggle to work out how people are able to enjoy it, this is one of those films. There is just too much wrong with it, the absolutely gaping plot holes that are so silly they take you out of the movie, the inconsistent characters, the total disregard of previous Star Wars lore, the boring story, the total disregard of things set out in TFA, the laid on with a trowel political messages, the misplaced humour and the Disney-fication of it that it's very hard for me to understand how the critics and some people on this thread actually liked it.
Fans have been accused of overthinking things and over analysing it, the funny thing is you really don't need to do that much analysing to spot the glaring crapness of much of it. Like TPM it had maybe 2 or 3 stand out scenes which would amount to about 20-30 minutes of screen time, the rest of it was average at best to downright garbage in a lot of places.
frisbee said:
I want to rank ROTJ higher but the Ewoks, Boba Fett's silly death and building a bigger Death Star outweigh the good parts. Even in the second trilogy Lucas had a lot of good ideas and created some great characters but as the films go on they try and get more and more complex and clever. I think film storytelling peaked in the 80s.
I haven't seen The Last Jedi yet - I lost my opening day mojo after being underwhelmed with The Force Awakens (I watched it again recently and liked it even less - the whole planet laser idea thing was just..... s
tI've seen Rogue One a good few times now. I absolutely love it, and rank it alongside Empire (ok, maybe ever so slightly below Empire)
B.J.W said:
frisbee said:
I want to rank ROTJ higher but the Ewoks, Boba Fett's silly death and building a bigger Death Star outweigh the good parts. Even in the second trilogy Lucas had a lot of good ideas and created some great characters but as the films go on they try and get more and more complex and clever. I think film storytelling peaked in the 80s.
I haven't seen The Last Jedi yet - I lost my opening day mojo after being underwhelmed with The Force Awakens (I watched it again recently and liked it even less - the whole planet laser idea thing was just..... stI've seen Rogue One a good few times now. I absolutely love it, and rank it alongside Empire (ok, maybe ever so slightly below Empire)
Prometheus was fun, that was considered bad in some places...till Alien Covenant came along. 
The SW rankings is good, I've seen it on FB too. Trying to chose between Star Wars and Empire is always tough though, SW may be the better overall film and is so well crafted, but Empire pushes the story along in a logical direction, rare for a sequel. SO they might as well be joint.
So mine aren't set in stone, and I need to rewatch Caravan of Courage to list that properly, it may rank higher than Last Jedi.
The SW rankings is good, I've seen it on FB too. Trying to chose between Star Wars and Empire is always tough though, SW may be the better overall film and is so well crafted, but Empire pushes the story along in a logical direction, rare for a sequel. SO they might as well be joint.
So mine aren't set in stone, and I need to rewatch Caravan of Courage to list that properly, it may rank higher than Last Jedi.
- Star Wars
- The Empire Strikes Back
- Return of the Jedi
- Rogue One
- Revenge of the Sith
- The Last Jedi
r11co said:
Are you being ironic?
Johnson has affirmed with TLJ that there is no 'set up' in Star Wars. Anything can be discarded or established on a whim now. The vacuum of space can be switched on and off in the space of 4 minutes, for example...
Or you could just look at the Visual Guide book which explains the technical details..Johnson has affirmed with TLJ that there is no 'set up' in Star Wars. Anything can be discarded or established on a whim now. The vacuum of space can be switched on and off in the space of 4 minutes, for example...
Guvernator said:
I'm no writer but I could probably sketch out the plot of a much better Star Wars films then TLJ in about 10 minutes if I was of a mind to.
Go on, give it a shot and we'll give you our critique. As true fanboi I expect nothing less than what I and I alone expect: make it the same as the original trilogy but also make it different and don't change anything but make sure it feels new. Make sure to include surprises but not surprises we don't want. In fact avoid surprises. Do not rehash anything but also do not try anything new because we won't like that. Make sure you do justice to the cast but we don't say how. Make sure you get it right; I want it to be exactly the way I want it but just a bit different but also the same. Make sure we know all the backstory to each individual character especially the incidental ones because we're all speculating and you better have been reading our minds, but leave it mysterious at the same time. No CGI, keep it practical, and make sure to expand the universe like the prequels did using, you know, CGI. Also don't do anything the prequels did, or Force Awakens, or the original trilogy. But make it like those films too. Give it some humour but don't make it too funny and don't make it unfunny and boring. Give us some new force powers but not ones we haven't seen before because that would be ludicrous. Don't kill anyone as it betrays my childhood, but also make it unpredictable but killing off a few characters.
I await your first draft with bitter breath. Or something like that.
Source: Wittertainment. Although they got it from a listener who got it from somewhere else who got it off the internet
parabolica said:
Go on, give it a shot and we'll give you our critique.
As true fanboi I expect nothing less than what I and I alone expect: make it the same as the original trilogy but also make it different and don't change anything but make sure it feels new. Make sure to include surprises but not surprises we don't want. In fact avoid surprises. Do not rehash anything but also do not try anything new because we won't like that. Make sure you do justice to the cast but we don't say how. Make sure you get it right; I want it to be exactly the way I want it but just a bit different but also the same. Make sure we know all the backstory to each individual character especially the incidental ones because we're all speculating and you better have been reading our minds, but leave it mysterious at the same time. No CGI, keep it practical, and make sure to expand the universe like the prequels did using, you know, CGI. Also don't do anything the prequels did, or Force Awakens, or the original trilogy. But make it like those films too. Give it some humour but don't make it too funny and don't make it unfunny and boring. Give us some new force powers but not ones we haven't seen before because that would be ludicrous. Don't kill anyone as it betrays my childhood, but also make it unpredictable but killing off a few characters.
I await your first draft with bitter breath. Or something like that.
Source: Wittertainment. Although they got it from a listener who got it from somewhere else who got it off the internet
As true fanboi I expect nothing less than what I and I alone expect: make it the same as the original trilogy but also make it different and don't change anything but make sure it feels new. Make sure to include surprises but not surprises we don't want. In fact avoid surprises. Do not rehash anything but also do not try anything new because we won't like that. Make sure you do justice to the cast but we don't say how. Make sure you get it right; I want it to be exactly the way I want it but just a bit different but also the same. Make sure we know all the backstory to each individual character especially the incidental ones because we're all speculating and you better have been reading our minds, but leave it mysterious at the same time. No CGI, keep it practical, and make sure to expand the universe like the prequels did using, you know, CGI. Also don't do anything the prequels did, or Force Awakens, or the original trilogy. But make it like those films too. Give it some humour but don't make it too funny and don't make it unfunny and boring. Give us some new force powers but not ones we haven't seen before because that would be ludicrous. Don't kill anyone as it betrays my childhood, but also make it unpredictable but killing off a few characters.
I await your first draft with bitter breath. Or something like that.
Source: Wittertainment. Although they got it from a listener who got it from somewhere else who got it off the internet
I'm not saying my ideas would be brilliant but it would be a darn sight better than the crap they came up with. There is a link on the previous page by Halb to a youtube clip. I doubt he is a professional writer but he came up with a MUCH better idea of how this new trilogy should go IMO. Yes it won't satisfy everyone's dreams and expectations, that's impossible but it would have been a lot more interesting than this nonsense.
Edited by Guvernator on Saturday 30th December 23:09
Saw it on Thursday night, not overly impressed:
issues...
Leia turning into superwoman (really?)
The entire rebel space fleet playing fuel gauge roulette...did no one think to check before setting out that they had enough, or was it just 'nah, we'll stop at the next one...'
The whole Poe on hold thing, not really that funny, not sure anyone would ever say 'he's tooling with you' to the mission commander either.
The whole casino planet mcguffin, didin't they do this in PM as well, look how well that was received
The first order/empire really need to stop buying hardware from whomever they are procuring from:
2 death stars, buggered
1 star planet killer, warranty expired
I Dreadnought - killed by one X wing and some logic defying incendiaries
Stormtrooper armour that cannot stop rocks let alone blasters, and while we are here, blasters that rarely hit anything.
Phasma seemed to be equipped with a giant toothpick, er ok then...
Did anyone else think the shape of the Jedi temple tree echoed the resistance symbol?
issues...
Leia turning into superwoman (really?)
The entire rebel space fleet playing fuel gauge roulette...did no one think to check before setting out that they had enough, or was it just 'nah, we'll stop at the next one...'
The whole Poe on hold thing, not really that funny, not sure anyone would ever say 'he's tooling with you' to the mission commander either.
The whole casino planet mcguffin, didin't they do this in PM as well, look how well that was received
The first order/empire really need to stop buying hardware from whomever they are procuring from:
2 death stars, buggered
1 star planet killer, warranty expired
I Dreadnought - killed by one X wing and some logic defying incendiaries
Stormtrooper armour that cannot stop rocks let alone blasters, and while we are here, blasters that rarely hit anything.
Phasma seemed to be equipped with a giant toothpick, er ok then...
Did anyone else think the shape of the Jedi temple tree echoed the resistance symbol?
Edited by wibble cb on Sunday 31st December 05:15
I saw it today, and I enjoyed it.
I thought it moved things along nicely - we're now left with new protagonists to sort it all out in Episode 9. Killing off Han and Luke had to be done otherwise there would never be a fresh start.
I don't buy all this "the director deliberately messed with it" stuff: the story arc made sense to me.
Yes there were irrelevant bits, and silly bits, but it is a fairy tale set in space, not a documentary.
I agree it was a bit too long, and the whole Finn / Rose side story could have been cut completely - but I'm guessing he was told he had to include a storyline for Finn.
8/10 - would have been 7.5 but gets an extra half point for Eddie Hitler doing stuff straight out of Bottom.
I thought it moved things along nicely - we're now left with new protagonists to sort it all out in Episode 9. Killing off Han and Luke had to be done otherwise there would never be a fresh start.
I don't buy all this "the director deliberately messed with it" stuff: the story arc made sense to me.
Yes there were irrelevant bits, and silly bits, but it is a fairy tale set in space, not a documentary.
I agree it was a bit too long, and the whole Finn / Rose side story could have been cut completely - but I'm guessing he was told he had to include a storyline for Finn.
8/10 - would have been 7.5 but gets an extra half point for Eddie Hitler doing stuff straight out of Bottom.
Jader1973 said:
I don't buy all this "the director deliberately messed with it" stuff.
Rian Johnson went on record stating he did (then backtracked, saying he didn't know he was messing with it because he came to his story conclusions before TFA had finished filming), so you not 'buying it' means you missed something he wanted you to know (or you are in some sort of denial).Jader1973 said:
I thought it moved things along nicely - we're now left with new protagonists to sort it all out in Episode 9. Killing off Han and Luke had to be done otherwise there would never be a fresh start.
Your analysis (as well as being oversimplistic, understable considering you missed the major director trolling) has a gaping flaw - Princess Leia/Carrie Fisher.Wiping the slate two-thirds of the way into a trilogy that is trading on an established storyline is a cynical commercial move at best, but in hindsight it seems more like write/director hubris.
Edited by r11co on Sunday 31st December 11:31
r11co said:
Rian Johnson went on record stating he did (then backtracked, saying he didn't know he was messing with it because he came to his story conclusions before TFA had finished filming), so you not 'buying it' means you missed something he wanted you to know (or you are in some sort of denial).
Yeah, not sure how that even works. The only big thing that might alter story in TFA is Han's death, the rest of it's structure is inter-connected, how the heck did he reach the end of his own sequel story before knowing how TFA is put together.Halb said:
Yeah, not sure how that even works. The only big thing that might alter story in TFA is Han's death, the rest of it's structure is inter-connected, how the heck did he reach the end of his own sequel story before knowing how TFA is put together.
That's what he said!Bullett said:
There were a few points, I forget exactly what now, where specific references are made to events in TFA so that is a load of rubbish.
Of course it's a load of rubbish. As was said earlier in the thread Johnson is trying to muddy the waters because he knows what he was trumpeting before release as bold moves were actually big mistakes. He totally misread how his plot-trolling would be received.Ironically had he just kept his mouth shut he might have got away with it as it would all be put down to viewer opinion.
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