Timing chain weakness
Discussion
E90 engines I thought they had sorted the swirl flap issues never heard of a e90 going cause one has failed,turbo seems obvious enough regular oil changes and newer designed vortex style breather. Most talk seems to be timing chain noise or breaking don't fancy a 5k bill for new engine..
You are correct to be concerned about timing chain issues on the N47 diesels especially around the 2008 model year - lots on information on the internet about this - below is the text from BMW PUMA - it is not the chain itself but excessively sharp sprockets which causes the chain to wear. The reason it is an issue is that the chain is at the back of the engine so it is not cheap to replace before it snaps, and probably uneconomical to repair after it does.
PUMA 13588845-03 incidence recorded by BMW and its repair
Diligence-number Item
43863106-03 N47, N47S, N47T, rustling sound in the engine, timing chain rubs.
Approval date (day.month.year) Status Organization
Approved 14.12.11 Germany, automobiles
Vehicles affected
E Series Motor Body
E60 E61 E81 E82 E83 N47 N47DKO N47S N47T E61 E60 E81 E82 E83 N47 N47S N47T N47DKO
E84 E87 E88 E90 E91 E87 E84 E88 E90 E91
E92 E93 F10 F11 F25 E93 E92 F10 F11 F25
Feedback Comment production interval Feedback
(From / to) on the production interval diligence (day.month.year) to (day.month.year)
/ 01.03.11 / 01.03.11
Complaint
Sound of friction drag on the engine from about 1500 rpm, which is visible from the inside.
The noise can be perceived in area of the gearbox housing and the oil pan.
Cause
Excessively sharp edges on the sprockets, the chain does not flow evenly over the guides.
Measures
We must distinguish two cases:
Case 1:
For engines N47, N47DKO, N47S, interval from 01.03.2007 to production 05.01.2009.
In case of customer complaint must change the following parts:
(See Annexes, Figures 1 to 7.) - Nov. 21 7803479 Sutitución the crankshaft bearings.
Caution: Use only crankshafts with a production date back to 5. 1. 1. 2009 2009
The production date is printed on crankshaft sprocket (see page 2 of the Annex)
Meaning of the figures:
The first two indicate the assembly line.
The 6 following year (two digits), month, day.
Last 5 indicate the reference number of the crankshaft.
Thus, the crankshaft shown on page 2 of the annex was built on October 21, 2009.
41 -11 7,797,896 chain oil pump.
11 31 8 506 652 Timing Chain bottom.
13 52 7 797 906 sprocket for driving the high pressure pump.
11 27 7 800 523 sprocket (intermediate for balance shafts).
11 8,510,014 31 Supply Chain superior.
-11 7,797,899 31 Timing Chain Guide above.
-13 7,797,904 52 Timing Chain Guide below.
Note: Adjusting the intermediate gear shafts accurately balanced according to workshop manual. In case this intermediate sprocket and the balance shafts are not sufficiently fit, the motor can still giving rise to noise despite the new crankshaft.
See November 21 workshop manual 500 "crankshaft replacement."
Note: In the case of vehicles to which a previous repair and they replaced the crankshaft:
Proceed with these vehicles as detailed in "Case 2".
Case 2:
N47 engine, N47DKO, N47S, N47T production interval 05.01.2009 - 01.03.2011
In case of customer complaint replace the following parts:
(See Appendix, Art 8 to 10)
-11 8,506,652 31 Supply Chain bottom.
- 13 52 7 797 906 sprocket high pressure pump.
- 11 31 8 510 014 Supply Chain superior.
-11 7,797,899 31 Timing Chain Guide above.
-13 7,797,904 52 Timing Chain Guide below.
Note: There is no need to release the binding thread of the intermediate toothed wheel balancer shafts.
Note: As of March 2011 there are new guidelines. These guidelines do not bring reinforcing ribs.
(See Appendix, pp. 7 and 10.)
In this way the inner surface of the guides is smooth throughout its length and the timing chain runs easily on them.
They have not changed the references.
Note: During the repair make sure guides are mounted without lateral veins (in the Annex, Art 7 and 10.)
Attention:
No repairs are allowed in vehicles with production date after 03/2011 and vehicles in which all existing measures have already been made. The sound now is the moment, the normal state of this world! No risk of broken chain!
Not allowed engine change because of this claim!
Claim
Location of the defect: Defect Type: Circumstances of default:
Guide part incorrect
Crank Noise
Wheel motor
Distribution
Worn crankshaft
Wheel motor
Distribution
Motor Noise Motor Power
PUMA 13588845-03 incidence recorded by BMW and its repair
Diligence-number Item
43863106-03 N47, N47S, N47T, rustling sound in the engine, timing chain rubs.
Approval date (day.month.year) Status Organization
Approved 14.12.11 Germany, automobiles
Vehicles affected
E Series Motor Body
E60 E61 E81 E82 E83 N47 N47DKO N47S N47T E61 E60 E81 E82 E83 N47 N47S N47T N47DKO
E84 E87 E88 E90 E91 E87 E84 E88 E90 E91
E92 E93 F10 F11 F25 E93 E92 F10 F11 F25
Feedback Comment production interval Feedback
(From / to) on the production interval diligence (day.month.year) to (day.month.year)
/ 01.03.11 / 01.03.11
Complaint
Sound of friction drag on the engine from about 1500 rpm, which is visible from the inside.
The noise can be perceived in area of the gearbox housing and the oil pan.
Cause
Excessively sharp edges on the sprockets, the chain does not flow evenly over the guides.
Measures
We must distinguish two cases:
Case 1:
For engines N47, N47DKO, N47S, interval from 01.03.2007 to production 05.01.2009.
In case of customer complaint must change the following parts:
(See Annexes, Figures 1 to 7.) - Nov. 21 7803479 Sutitución the crankshaft bearings.
Caution: Use only crankshafts with a production date back to 5. 1. 1. 2009 2009
The production date is printed on crankshaft sprocket (see page 2 of the Annex)
Meaning of the figures:
The first two indicate the assembly line.
The 6 following year (two digits), month, day.
Last 5 indicate the reference number of the crankshaft.
Thus, the crankshaft shown on page 2 of the annex was built on October 21, 2009.
41 -11 7,797,896 chain oil pump.
11 31 8 506 652 Timing Chain bottom.
13 52 7 797 906 sprocket for driving the high pressure pump.
11 27 7 800 523 sprocket (intermediate for balance shafts).
11 8,510,014 31 Supply Chain superior.
-11 7,797,899 31 Timing Chain Guide above.
-13 7,797,904 52 Timing Chain Guide below.
Note: Adjusting the intermediate gear shafts accurately balanced according to workshop manual. In case this intermediate sprocket and the balance shafts are not sufficiently fit, the motor can still giving rise to noise despite the new crankshaft.
See November 21 workshop manual 500 "crankshaft replacement."
Note: In the case of vehicles to which a previous repair and they replaced the crankshaft:
Proceed with these vehicles as detailed in "Case 2".
Case 2:
N47 engine, N47DKO, N47S, N47T production interval 05.01.2009 - 01.03.2011
In case of customer complaint replace the following parts:
(See Appendix, Art 8 to 10)
-11 8,506,652 31 Supply Chain bottom.
- 13 52 7 797 906 sprocket high pressure pump.
- 11 31 8 510 014 Supply Chain superior.
-11 7,797,899 31 Timing Chain Guide above.
-13 7,797,904 52 Timing Chain Guide below.
Note: There is no need to release the binding thread of the intermediate toothed wheel balancer shafts.
Note: As of March 2011 there are new guidelines. These guidelines do not bring reinforcing ribs.
(See Appendix, pp. 7 and 10.)
In this way the inner surface of the guides is smooth throughout its length and the timing chain runs easily on them.
They have not changed the references.
Note: During the repair make sure guides are mounted without lateral veins (in the Annex, Art 7 and 10.)
Attention:
No repairs are allowed in vehicles with production date after 03/2011 and vehicles in which all existing measures have already been made. The sound now is the moment, the normal state of this world! No risk of broken chain!
Not allowed engine change because of this claim!
Claim
Location of the defect: Defect Type: Circumstances of default:
Guide part incorrect
Crank Noise
Wheel motor
Distribution
Worn crankshaft
Wheel motor
Distribution
Motor Noise Motor Power
bulldog5046 said:
This seems it would effect my 118d built 08/2010. As it is still in warranty is it worth complaining to get the new parts fitted? or do you have to wait until it fails?
Seemingly a tell tale sign is a "wooshing" type noise at around 1500rpm which is more noticeable from the back of the engine at the passenger side. I can't see BMW replacing parts as a precaution if it's not making this noise as it means taking the engine out and replacing quite a few parts. In any case, I would suggest getting at least an extended BMW drive train warranty after your original warranty expires as I have a 118d and I wouldn't fancy taking the risk. Lots of more information over at Babybmw.net tim0409 said:
Seemingly a tell tale sign is a "wooshing" type noise at around 1500rpm which is more noticeable from the back of the engine at the passenger side. I can't see BMW replacing parts as a precaution if it's not making this noise as it means taking the engine out and replacing quite a few parts. In any case, I would suggest getting at least an extended BMW drive train warranty after your original warranty expires as I have a 118d and I wouldn't fancy taking the risk. Lots of more information over at Babybmw.net
Funny you mention the 'wooshing' sound. a couple of weekends ago i had suspected i might have an exhaust leak as i could hear what sounded like a split exhaust when the turbo spooled around 1500-2000rpm, but it stopped happening of it's own accord....It's going in for it's 20k service next month so i will mention it. Might be worth me taking a look to see if i can still hear the sound..
I've read on other forums that this affects the LCI 330d (so probably the 204hp 325d) too.. As that engine is essentially the same as the 20d with 2 extra cylinders..
Puts me off wanting an LCI 330d.. That and the issues with turbo actuators on the 335d means that the pre LCI 330d is the one to go for.imo
Puts me off wanting an LCI 330d.. That and the issues with turbo actuators on the 335d means that the pre LCI 330d is the one to go for.imo
chriz1 said:
E90 engines I thought they had sorted the swirl flap issues never heard of a e90 going cause one has failed,turbo seems obvious enough regular oil changes and newer designed vortex style breather. Most talk seems to be timing chain noise or breaking don't fancy a 5k bill for new engine..
My apologies, I thought you were looking at the older E46 series! 
tim0409 said:
You are correct to be concerned about timing chain issues on the N47 diesels especially around the 2008 model year - lots on information on the internet about this - below is the text from BMW PUMA - it is not the chain itself but excessively sharp sprockets which causes the chain to wear. The reason it is an issue is that the chain is at the back of the engine so it is not cheap to replace before it snaps, and probably uneconomical to repair after it does.
PUMA 13588845-03 incidence recorded by BMW and its repair
Diligence-number Item
43863106-03 N47, N47S, N47T, rustling sound in the engine, timing chain rubs.
Approval date (day.month.year) Status Organization
Approved 14.12.11 Germany, automobiles
Vehicles affected
E Series Motor Body
E60 E61 E81 E82 E83 N47 N47DKO N47S N47T E61 E60 E81 E82 E83 N47 N47S N47T N47DKO
E84 E87 E88 E90 E91 E87 E84 E88 E90 E91
E92 E93 F10 F11 F25 E93 E92 F10 F11 F25
Feedback Comment production interval Feedback
(From / to) on the production interval diligence (day.month.year) to (day.month.year)
/ 01.03.11 / 01.03.11
Complaint
Sound of friction drag on the engine from about 1500 rpm, which is visible from the inside.
The noise can be perceived in area of the gearbox housing and the oil pan.
Cause
Excessively sharp edges on the sprockets, the chain does not flow evenly over the guides.
Measures
We must distinguish two cases:
Case 1:
For engines N47, N47DKO, N47S, interval from 01.03.2007 to production 05.01.2009.
In case of customer complaint must change the following parts:
(See Annexes, Figures 1 to 7.) - Nov. 21 7803479 Sutitución the crankshaft bearings.
Caution: Use only crankshafts with a production date back to 5. 1. 1. 2009 2009
The production date is printed on crankshaft sprocket (see page 2 of the Annex)
Meaning of the figures:
The first two indicate the assembly line.
The 6 following year (two digits), month, day.
Last 5 indicate the reference number of the crankshaft.
Thus, the crankshaft shown on page 2 of the annex was built on October 21, 2009.
41 -11 7,797,896 chain oil pump.
11 31 8 506 652 Timing Chain bottom.
13 52 7 797 906 sprocket for driving the high pressure pump.
11 27 7 800 523 sprocket (intermediate for balance shafts).
11 8,510,014 31 Supply Chain superior.
-11 7,797,899 31 Timing Chain Guide above.
-13 7,797,904 52 Timing Chain Guide below.
Note: Adjusting the intermediate gear shafts accurately balanced according to workshop manual. In case this intermediate sprocket and the balance shafts are not sufficiently fit, the motor can still giving rise to noise despite the new crankshaft.
See November 21 workshop manual 500 "crankshaft replacement."
Note: In the case of vehicles to which a previous repair and they replaced the crankshaft:
Proceed with these vehicles as detailed in "Case 2".
Case 2:
N47 engine, N47DKO, N47S, N47T production interval 05.01.2009 - 01.03.2011
In case of customer complaint replace the following parts:
(See Appendix, Art 8 to 10)
-11 8,506,652 31 Supply Chain bottom.
- 13 52 7 797 906 sprocket high pressure pump.
- 11 31 8 510 014 Supply Chain superior.
-11 7,797,899 31 Timing Chain Guide above.
-13 7,797,904 52 Timing Chain Guide below.
Note: There is no need to release the binding thread of the intermediate toothed wheel balancer shafts.
Note: As of March 2011 there are new guidelines. These guidelines do not bring reinforcing ribs.
(See Appendix, pp. 7 and 10.)
In this way the inner surface of the guides is smooth throughout its length and the timing chain runs easily on them.
They have not changed the references.
Note: During the repair make sure guides are mounted without lateral veins (in the Annex, Art 7 and 10.)
Attention:
No repairs are allowed in vehicles with production date after 03/2011 and vehicles in which all existing measures have already been made. The sound now is the moment, the normal state of this world! No risk of broken chain!
Not allowed engine change because of this claim!
Claim
Location of the defect: Defect Type: Circumstances of default:
Guide part incorrect
Crank Noise
Wheel motor
Distribution
Worn crankshaft
Wheel motor
Distribution
Motor Noise Motor Power
I have my VIN number how can I tell if my engine is affected? It's a 2008 (end of Dec 2008, so almost 2009). N54 diesel engine. 27k miles.PUMA 13588845-03 incidence recorded by BMW and its repair
Diligence-number Item
43863106-03 N47, N47S, N47T, rustling sound in the engine, timing chain rubs.
Approval date (day.month.year) Status Organization
Approved 14.12.11 Germany, automobiles
Vehicles affected
E Series Motor Body
E60 E61 E81 E82 E83 N47 N47DKO N47S N47T E61 E60 E81 E82 E83 N47 N47S N47T N47DKO
E84 E87 E88 E90 E91 E87 E84 E88 E90 E91
E92 E93 F10 F11 F25 E93 E92 F10 F11 F25
Feedback Comment production interval Feedback
(From / to) on the production interval diligence (day.month.year) to (day.month.year)
/ 01.03.11 / 01.03.11
Complaint
Sound of friction drag on the engine from about 1500 rpm, which is visible from the inside.
The noise can be perceived in area of the gearbox housing and the oil pan.
Cause
Excessively sharp edges on the sprockets, the chain does not flow evenly over the guides.
Measures
We must distinguish two cases:
Case 1:
For engines N47, N47DKO, N47S, interval from 01.03.2007 to production 05.01.2009.
In case of customer complaint must change the following parts:
(See Annexes, Figures 1 to 7.) - Nov. 21 7803479 Sutitución the crankshaft bearings.
Caution: Use only crankshafts with a production date back to 5. 1. 1. 2009 2009
The production date is printed on crankshaft sprocket (see page 2 of the Annex)
Meaning of the figures:
The first two indicate the assembly line.
The 6 following year (two digits), month, day.
Last 5 indicate the reference number of the crankshaft.
Thus, the crankshaft shown on page 2 of the annex was built on October 21, 2009.
41 -11 7,797,896 chain oil pump.
11 31 8 506 652 Timing Chain bottom.
13 52 7 797 906 sprocket for driving the high pressure pump.
11 27 7 800 523 sprocket (intermediate for balance shafts).
11 8,510,014 31 Supply Chain superior.
-11 7,797,899 31 Timing Chain Guide above.
-13 7,797,904 52 Timing Chain Guide below.
Note: Adjusting the intermediate gear shafts accurately balanced according to workshop manual. In case this intermediate sprocket and the balance shafts are not sufficiently fit, the motor can still giving rise to noise despite the new crankshaft.
See November 21 workshop manual 500 "crankshaft replacement."
Note: In the case of vehicles to which a previous repair and they replaced the crankshaft:
Proceed with these vehicles as detailed in "Case 2".
Case 2:
N47 engine, N47DKO, N47S, N47T production interval 05.01.2009 - 01.03.2011
In case of customer complaint replace the following parts:
(See Appendix, Art 8 to 10)
-11 8,506,652 31 Supply Chain bottom.
- 13 52 7 797 906 sprocket high pressure pump.
- 11 31 8 510 014 Supply Chain superior.
-11 7,797,899 31 Timing Chain Guide above.
-13 7,797,904 52 Timing Chain Guide below.
Note: There is no need to release the binding thread of the intermediate toothed wheel balancer shafts.
Note: As of March 2011 there are new guidelines. These guidelines do not bring reinforcing ribs.
(See Appendix, pp. 7 and 10.)
In this way the inner surface of the guides is smooth throughout its length and the timing chain runs easily on them.
They have not changed the references.
Note: During the repair make sure guides are mounted without lateral veins (in the Annex, Art 7 and 10.)
Attention:
No repairs are allowed in vehicles with production date after 03/2011 and vehicles in which all existing measures have already been made. The sound now is the moment, the normal state of this world! No risk of broken chain!
Not allowed engine change because of this claim!
Claim
Location of the defect: Defect Type: Circumstances of default:
Guide part incorrect
Crank Noise
Wheel motor
Distribution
Worn crankshaft
Wheel motor
Distribution
Motor Noise Motor Power
philmots said:
I've read on other forums that this affects the LCI 330d (so probably the 204hp 325d) too.. As that engine is essentially the same as the 20d with 2 extra cylinders..
Puts me off wanting an LCI 330d.. That and the issues with turbo actuators on the 335d means that the pre LCI 330d is the one to go for.imo
Pre LCI TU2 can also snap chains ,although not as common.The 35d has stronger turbos than the 330d single one.It would be my choice combined with the tough auto :-Puts me off wanting an LCI 330d.. That and the issues with turbo actuators on the 335d means that the pre LCI 330d is the one to go for.imo
Fact is you need a warranty and these chains go at either 20k or 120k.
Holy thread resurrection and all that...
I test drove a 2012 BMW 320d Auto coupe yesterday and there seemed to be a slight rattle detectable on acceleration and I just wanted to reassure myself that it isn't anything sinister. I might see if I can test drive it again tomorrow. Is it something I need to worry about or could it be something else?
I test drove a 2012 BMW 320d Auto coupe yesterday and there seemed to be a slight rattle detectable on acceleration and I just wanted to reassure myself that it isn't anything sinister. I might see if I can test drive it again tomorrow. Is it something I need to worry about or could it be something else?
24lemons said:
Holy thread resurrection and all that...
I test drove a 2012 BMW 320d Auto coupe yesterday and there seemed to be a slight rattle detectable on acceleration and I just wanted to reassure myself that it isn't anything sinister. I might see if I can test drive it again tomorrow. Is it something I need to worry about or could it be something else?
Hello Lemon in 2012 BMW once again upgraded the Chain because it was still problematic with noise.Is yours upgraded who knows ,plus the Turbos are iffy as well ,knowing what I know Id walk away.I test drove a 2012 BMW 320d Auto coupe yesterday and there seemed to be a slight rattle detectable on acceleration and I just wanted to reassure myself that it isn't anything sinister. I might see if I can test drive it again tomorrow. Is it something I need to worry about or could it be something else?
The service manager at a large BMW Dealer group once said to me "its only now (sep 14) that I would spend my own money on the N47 Engine."
smashy said:
Hello Lemon in 2012 BMW once again upgraded the Chain because it was still problematic with noise.Is yours upgraded who knows ,plus the Turbos are iffy as well ,knowing what I know Id walk away.
The service manager at a large BMW Dealer group once said to me "its only now (sep 14) that I would spend my own money on the N47 Engine."
Thanks for that. Its a shame because the car looks lovely otherwise. I have a 2011 120d with the same or similar engine and there is no noise. The dealer did say it was the updated engine though as the mpg figures seem to be higher than my current car.The service manager at a large BMW Dealer group once said to me "its only now (sep 14) that I would spend my own money on the N47 Engine."
This is good stuff re cars around your 2012 year Lemons http://www.babybmw.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=63&am...
chriz1 said:
Well that's out me off buying an e90 BMW then,as my budget puts me in this range of engine,oly things can do is look for a early 57 plate with low miles that had the older 163bhp engine,as buying the 177bhp engine is a bit of daft decision espically as there are so many cases 
The 163 bhp engine is a very good one. Look around and you will find a nice low mileage low owner car. They go well enough tbh.That's interesting thanks. it was a faint swoosh on acceleration that i noticed. Not a turbo noise though. It was subtle but there nonetheless. I couldn't detect anything at idle. I dont want to pass up the car because of paranoia but equally I dont want to overlook a potential problem.
I had my cam chain tensioner changed and the chain was fine. If you get it properly inspected (and usually that is free as part of the recall) you shouldn't have any issues. Very good engine (especially mapped - changes it completely) which was extremely frugal and for a diesel 4 pot, I thought pretty good!
stuart-b said:
I had my cam chain tensioner changed and the chain was fine. If you get it properly inspected (and usually that is free as part of the recall) you shouldn't have any issues. Very good engine (especially mapped - changes it completely) which was extremely frugal and for a diesel 4 pot, I thought pretty good!
recalls for 2007/2009 cars only which was more of the farcial situationGassing Station | BMW General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff