Tuesday 22nd October 2013

McLaren P1 Nurburgring lap time

The internet says McLaren has set a 6:47; McLaren is saying nothing while Alfa claims a record of its own

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We had to ask. Even though we could probably have written out the answer for ourselves. When Dale explored the whole 'sub seven' issue shortly before Porsche confirmed it'd done just that in the 918 Spyder he had a McLaren bod he'd met out there as saying, "Without a sub-seven lap time, we probably won't even mention we were at the Nurburgring."

Well, the rumour mill said on the first attempt the P1 went 7min 4sec and now it's saying on a return visit it's done 6min 47sec. Off the back of confirming the P1's performance stats you'd have thought a lap time would've rounded things off nicely, not to mention throwing a gauntlet down to LaFerrari.

4C fastest in ... the class it claims as its own

But when we asked McLaren we were told, perhaps unsurprisingly, "It is all just purely speculation. There is no secret that a car is over in Germany at the moment with a team of development engineers, who are working on calibrations and final tuning, but no lap times of any circuits have been set."

Apart from the '10 seconds faster than anyone' around the Top Gear test track, claimed by one Ron Dennis, that is.

Moving on, if the P1 remains bashful about its lap time at the 'ring the Alfa Romeo 4C is anything but and having set a time of 8min 4sec Alfa Romeo has hunted around for a category in which this is the fastest time and settled on ' fastest time of cars with engines under 250hp'. Set by official 'ring hand Horst von Saurma just a couple of weeks after Porsche set its record the time proves ... that. Anyone care to lend us an S2 Exige S?

[Sources: WorldCarFans, Top Gear]

[suffolk009]

I think Alfa have got that wrong.

From memory Robert Nearn did it in 7.55 in a K series Caterham R500 (230bhp). And that was way back at the turn of the century.

[British Beef]

"Calibration and final tuning" to deliver the official lap time.... I would love to know what this comprises of!!!

Im sure all the manufacturers do it, but with turbo engines turning the boost up and changing the engine mapping for a "qualifying lap" must be relatively easy to do.

[Andy ap]

Lol at Alfa!

[kambites]

British Beef said:

"Calibration and final tuning" to deliver the official lap time.... I would love to know what this comprises of!!!

Im sure all the manufacturers do it, but with turbo engines turning the boost up and changing the engine mapping for a "qualifying lap" must be relatively easy to do.

Well in Alfa's case it at least seems to involve taping up the shut-lines.

[Monty Python]

The P1's (alleged) time has made it here:

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

And you're right about the R500 - 7' 55".

Sorry, Alfa....

[Magic919]

Saw a P1 on the road nearby the Nurburgring this morning. No sign of it on track earlier though.

[kambites]

If they're really claiming that it's the fastest car with under 250bhp around there, there are all sorts of non-production cars that will trample all over it. I'm sure they've worded their claim carefully enough that the letter of it is true, though.

[405dogvan]

The amount of things controlled by software nowadays means you can setup a car in-detail and still call it a 'production lap' - odds are their 'Ring settings could even be fed into a preset for the owner - if it offers such a feature

As for the Top Gear Test Track - given that it's also McLaren's Development Track that seems a little unfair - more than a bit of home advantage there...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_test_track

and I'm guessing he's not including the Sea Harrier or even the R24?

[Mark ANTAR]

Please correct!
"Apart from the '10 seconds faster than anyone' around the Top Gear test track, claimed by one Ron Dennis, that is."

If you listen to the video carefully, you'll find that he said he went 10s faster than the 'star in a reasonably priced car' lap time record.

Edited by Mark ANTAR on Tuesday 22 October 15:10

[mybrainhurts]

British Beef said:

"Calibration and final tuning" to deliver the official lap time.... I would love to know what this comprises of!!!

Im sure all the manufacturers do it, but with turbo engines turning the boost up and changing the engine mapping for a "qualifying lap" must be relatively easy to do.

I read that as general development.

[AlexIT]

Actual press release as meant before going through the PR guys:

[Alfa claims]fastest time of Italian cars with mid-rear mounted 4cyl engines under 250hp built after june 1st and sept. 30th 2013whose driver had a capuccino for breakfast

[mybrainhurts]

AlexIT said:

Actual press release as meant before going through the PR guys:

[Alfa claims]fastest time of Italian cars with mid-rear mounted 4cyl engines under 250hp built after june 1st and sept. 30th 2013whose driver had a capuccino for breakfast

....and throbbing piles.

[BristolLee]

kambites said:

Well in Alfa's case it at least seems to involve taping up the shut-lines.

You mean that it's not just part of the optional Race Pack?

[dino ferrana]

I also thought the same when I read the Alfa claim. Caterham went faster 13 yrs ago with Robert Nearn driving. That was a one-off session and the car won't have been set up perfectly with the ring (they ran on a very slim budget in those days).

Amazed so few magazines or journalists have spotted that Alfa are telling porkies?

[BlackpoolRock]

Can't wait to see what LaFerrari has up it's sleeve now !

[errek72]

dino ferrana said:

I also thought the same when I read the Alfa claim. Caterham went faster 13 yrs ago with Robert Nearn driving. That was a one-off session and the car won't have been set up perfectly with the ring (they ran on a very slim budget in those days).

Amazed so few magazines or journalists have spotted that Alfa are telling porkies?

If you google about Alfa 4C news good luck finding anything else then the exact copies of the press release splattered all over "car" sites. If ever you can tell the good ones from the terrible, it is now.
I doubt the Alfa PR team would have even considered doing this if they had not known this is exactly what would happen.
That said, I can imagine their engineering team cringing reading it.

[ThatsWhatShe]

BlackpoolRock said:

Can't wait to see what LaFerrari has up it's sleeve now !

Less than fk all presumably.

They are using stone age technology compared to McLaren.

[Froomee]

405dogvan said:

The amount of things controlled by software nowadays means you can setup a car in-detail and still call it a 'production lap' - odds are their 'Ring settings could even be fed into a preset for the owner - if it offers such a feature

As for the Top Gear Test Track - given that it's also McLaren's Development Track that seems a little unfair - more than a bit of home advantage there...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_test_track

and I'm guessing he's not including the Sea Harrier or even the R24?

On that basis you could argue that Porsche has home advantage at the ring...

Tuning the car slightly i.e. suspension and aero settings are fair game as long as this can be done by a customer. Using slick tyres and/or upping power would be cheating in my opinion.

[anonymous-user]

ThatsWhatShe said:

Less than fk all presumably.

They are using stone age technology compared to McLaren.

I don't think it's "fk all", but I don't personally think they'll come anywhere near in a standard LaFerrari.

They're probably in the process of modifying it to a spec that's not road legal though, then claiming that it is when they set the record.

[fatbutt]

ThatsWhatShe said:

Less than fk all presumably.

They are using stone age technology compared to McLaren.

Maybe I'm showing my age here but isn't this a repeat of the 959/ F40 'battle' in the 80's, especially in the technology arena? For whatever reason, you can almost guarantee that the assorted journos will vote the Ferrari as the better car just because...