St james Wealth
Discussion
Had several calls from one of their salesman regarding investing in funds etc.
Any thoughts on the company please.
I understand their charges are quite high BUT if they offer better returns that alone would not put me off.
Would I be better looking at say Hargreaves Lansdown and if so why and what is difference between the services they offer.
Any thoughts on the company please.
I understand their charges are quite high BUT if they offer better returns that alone would not put me off.
Would I be better looking at say Hargreaves Lansdown and if so why and what is difference between the services they offer.
2222 said:
Cheib said:
If they are so good why do they have to cold call people? There endeth the lesson....
How is that relevant in a way way shape or form?I would have thought the returns and the level of service would be a far better indicator.
I take it you've had a bad experience then?
If they need to cold call people to expand their business it's probably either because they have a poor marketing department, poor product, unhappy customers or sales people that are highly incentivised. None of which is something I want from an IFA.
Do Hargreaves Lansdowne cold call people ? Different business but not that different. And no I don't use them either........
The cold call thing is such a pointless point.
I started in financial services at a big life office....I cold called people because it meant I could make huge amounts of money very easily.
Since then I have worked as an IFA/tied/under a network, etc, etc - and, for certain types of products, cold calling is still a quick and easy way to get new clients fast. Clients who then get the same level of service as the ones who have been with me 20 years and refer me all over the place.
Cold calling is ONLY EVER done...because it works.
IFA's cold call, SJP cold call.....some IFA's suck...so do some SJP folk. Some of both will be great.
The means of them getting in front of you has no bearing on the product.
I started in financial services at a big life office....I cold called people because it meant I could make huge amounts of money very easily.
Since then I have worked as an IFA/tied/under a network, etc, etc - and, for certain types of products, cold calling is still a quick and easy way to get new clients fast. Clients who then get the same level of service as the ones who have been with me 20 years and refer me all over the place.
Cold calling is ONLY EVER done...because it works.
IFA's cold call, SJP cold call.....some IFA's suck...so do some SJP folk. Some of both will be great.
The means of them getting in front of you has no bearing on the product.
I've had a good bit of contact with SJP over the years and have friends who are SJP advisers. Would I trust them with my parents money? Absolutely not, they are a trained sales force rather than professional advisers. SJP have very high charges compared to industry peers. In my experience it's very easy to be pleased with SJP if you haven't experienced proper service from a proper, professional adviser. Just remember that any salesman can make money in a rising market but only a professional adviser can help you avoid disaster when the market is falling. Just my two cents, nothing against SJP, I just wouldn't compare them to an independent adviser.
Cheib said:
I have lost count of the cold calls I and colleagues have had from them over the years. Never used them. A well run business with a good product should be able to survive on marketing and existing client recommendations without cold calling....especially a business where you should get to know your clients as well as an IFA should and have such regular contact. I've used my own IFA for 15 years....and have introduced plenty of people to them over the years because they're very good.
If they need to cold call people to expand their business it's probably either because they have a poor marketing department, poor product, unhappy customers or sales people that are highly incentivised. None of which is something I want from an IFA.
Do Hargreaves Lansdowne cold call people ? Different business but not that different. And no I don't use them either........
A rebuttal of sorts. First of all, SJP advisers are all different to the extent that the business runs a little like a franchise. I have been an adviser since 1982 (independent until 2005, then joined SJP). From 1982 to 1985 most of my business came from cold calling and the odd referral. Haven't contacted anyone cold since. My clients call me with people they would like to introduce me to.If they need to cold call people to expand their business it's probably either because they have a poor marketing department, poor product, unhappy customers or sales people that are highly incentivised. None of which is something I want from an IFA.
Do Hargreaves Lansdowne cold call people ? Different business but not that different. And no I don't use them either........
Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that each practice has it's own way of marketing and getting new clients.
As for high charges and other fairy tales, the Retail Distribution Review (RDR) has been a bit of a game changer as far as I can see. Happy for anyone to put up the total costs they are paying for advised and implemented recommendations to compare on ISA's, Unit Trust's, VCT's, EIS's Onshore and Offshore Bonds and Pensions. Research by Grant Thornton seemed to suggest that actually the cost of getting advice through SJP is very competetive with total costs being one of the lowest.
ukshooter said:
A rebuttal of sorts. First of all, SJP advisers are all different to the extent that the business runs a little like a franchise. I have been an adviser since 1982 (independent until 2005, then joined SJP). From 1982 to 1985 most of my business came from cold calling and the odd referral. Haven't contacted anyone cold since. My clients call me with people they would like to introduce me to.
Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that each practice has it's own way of marketing and getting new clients.
As for high charges and other fairy tales, the Retail Distribution Review (RDR) has been a bit of a game changer as far as I can see. Happy for anyone to put up the total costs they are paying for advised and implemented recommendations to compare on ISA's, Unit Trust's, VCT's, EIS's Onshore and Offshore Bonds and Pensions. Research by Grant Thornton seemed to suggest that actually the cost of getting advice through SJP is very competetive with total costs being one of the lowest.
So 5% charge on an ISA is normal ?Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that each practice has it's own way of marketing and getting new clients.
As for high charges and other fairy tales, the Retail Distribution Review (RDR) has been a bit of a game changer as far as I can see. Happy for anyone to put up the total costs they are paying for advised and implemented recommendations to compare on ISA's, Unit Trust's, VCT's, EIS's Onshore and Offshore Bonds and Pensions. Research by Grant Thornton seemed to suggest that actually the cost of getting advice through SJP is very competetive with total costs being one of the lowest.
Tie in on pension plan is normal ?
Who is Grant Thornton ?
FastEddie83 said:
I've had a good bit of contact with SJP over the years and have friends who are SJP advisers. Would I trust them with my parents money? Absolutely not, they are a trained sales force rather than professional advisers.
That implies their training in sales and financial advice differs to IFAs....which is daft because loads were IFAs. Many with chartered status. SJP doesnt train them to sell - they are already competent at that (like any good adviser) prior to joining.The vast majority of advisers today would have begun at life offices were they were ALL trained to sell. What further education they took in financial advice would have been largely up to them and nothing to do with whether they worked for an IFA, their own IFA, SJP, etc, etc (if anything - the access to education through a bog company like SJP would help further qualification, not hinder it)
[quote=Tiggsy]
That implies their training in sales and financial advice differs to IFAs....which is daft because loads were IFAs. Many with chartered status. SJP doesnt train them to sell - they are already competent at that (like any good adviser) prior to joining.
The vast majority of advisers today would have begun at life offices were they were ALL trained to sell. What further education they took in financial advice would have been largely up to them and nothing to do with whether they worked for an IFA, their own IFA, SJP, etc, etc (if anything - the access to education through a bog company like SJP would help further qualification, not hinder it)[/quote.
In my experience their training and advice does differ to IFA's. It's unheard of in a post RDR world for an IFA to charge a client 5% to invest but SJP advisers do because SJP tell them that they must. There's a difference between one who is trained to sell but chooses to advise on a solution, not a product and one who chooses to sell into predetermined funds, with pre determined charges. What a person done in a past life doesn't determine how they will act now, the financial services landscape is very different to how it was, for all but SJP, that is.
That implies their training in sales and financial advice differs to IFAs....which is daft because loads were IFAs. Many with chartered status. SJP doesnt train them to sell - they are already competent at that (like any good adviser) prior to joining.
The vast majority of advisers today would have begun at life offices were they were ALL trained to sell. What further education they took in financial advice would have been largely up to them and nothing to do with whether they worked for an IFA, their own IFA, SJP, etc, etc (if anything - the access to education through a bog company like SJP would help further qualification, not hinder it)[/quote.
In my experience their training and advice does differ to IFA's. It's unheard of in a post RDR world for an IFA to charge a client 5% to invest but SJP advisers do because SJP tell them that they must. There's a difference between one who is trained to sell but chooses to advise on a solution, not a product and one who chooses to sell into predetermined funds, with pre determined charges. What a person done in a past life doesn't determine how they will act now, the financial services landscape is very different to how it was, for all but SJP, that is.
Thanks to all for your comments.
It would appear that finding a good IFA might be the best way for me to proceed.
I am in a London,how do I go about finding a suitable IFA and how much might I expect to pay for his /her services.
What about me just going to the banks I use and taking advice from their advisers or are they tied in to only their own products.
The stock market appears to be overheating at the moment,one reason being that many are seeking better returns by going into stocks and shares,fed up with the very low rates from saving accounts.
So should I wait for the market to settle down or is trying to time the markets a waste of time over a 5 year period.
It would appear that finding a good IFA might be the best way for me to proceed.
I am in a London,how do I go about finding a suitable IFA and how much might I expect to pay for his /her services.
What about me just going to the banks I use and taking advice from their advisers or are they tied in to only their own products.
The stock market appears to be overheating at the moment,one reason being that many are seeking better returns by going into stocks and shares,fed up with the very low rates from saving accounts.
So should I wait for the market to settle down or is trying to time the markets a waste of time over a 5 year period.
depending on your investment level, (i.e. if its high enough) you might as well sign up with a bank, or private bank, wealth managers and make your own choices, with advice from them about what products to use.
You can invest in msot products, not jsut the ones they choose, as well as have access to bond and equity markets, loans, fx, etc etc etc
You can invest in msot products, not jsut the ones they choose, as well as have access to bond and equity markets, loans, fx, etc etc etc
avinalarf said:
Thanks to all for your comments.
It would appear that finding a good IFA might be the best way for me to proceed.
I am in a London,how do I go about finding a suitable IFA and how much might I expect to pay for his /her services.
What about me just going to the banks I use and taking advice from their advisers or are they tied in to only their own products.
The stock market appears to be overheating at the moment,one reason being that many are seeking better returns by going into stocks and shares,fed up with the very low rates from saving accounts.
So should I wait for the market to settle down or is trying to time the markets a waste of time over a 5 year period.
The banks "advisers" are tied to their own products (although some have a private wealth arm that usually sells... er... their own products).It would appear that finding a good IFA might be the best way for me to proceed.
I am in a London,how do I go about finding a suitable IFA and how much might I expect to pay for his /her services.
What about me just going to the banks I use and taking advice from their advisers or are they tied in to only their own products.
The stock market appears to be overheating at the moment,one reason being that many are seeking better returns by going into stocks and shares,fed up with the very low rates from saving accounts.
So should I wait for the market to settle down or is trying to time the markets a waste of time over a 5 year period.
Ask for a personal referral from a trusted friend, 99% of my clients have come that way. Expect to pay anywhere from 1-3% up front and 0.5 - 1% p.a. for advice.
Calling the market is not for the faint-hearted, almost impossible imho. If you are concerned about over-heating phase your investment over a period, it all depends how much we're talking about. And 5 yrs is the minimum for any equities based portfolio given the economic climate.
A competent adviser will want to know a lot more about you before making a recommendation of course. Don't get hung up on geography either, I live in the sticks but look after a dozen or so London clients, barring the occasional meeting most of your communications will be by phone and email in any case.
Proper private banking typically are not selling their own products, but are open architecture in their investments.
Very high minimum assets do apply though. $1m as a standard and higher in others. Think about £0.5m in the UK.
Part of the reasoning for this is the typically lower cost institutional approaches they can take for clients.
Very high minimum assets do apply though. $1m as a standard and higher in others. Think about £0.5m in the UK.
Part of the reasoning for this is the typically lower cost institutional approaches they can take for clients.
The timing of this thread is apposite, I'm currently sipping a coffee in Portugal having just seen a client who used to be with StJP. It tried to recruit me a few years back, the proposition is very seductive; for many reasons though, not one for me.
If a client is informed, then cost becomes less of an issue, after all, buyer beware. The terms of the bonds and retirement account were restrictive though - as I recall, getting out early cost an absolute packet. Notwithstanding that, I know many cracking IFAs who have become StJP 'partners', and I know many appalling IFAs too.
Just because a car salesman sells only one brand, does that make him a bad salesman and the brand less credible than another? IFA can get sniffy about the sales side of it, we too are in the business of selling ourselves, our integrity, our insight - lets not forget. I am here right now simply because my business compels me to be here, I am in business to do business - as are all sensible IFA and StJP employees. If we don't make money to grow our business.. how does that help our clients?
It's easy for an IFA to bash StJP and,with respect to StJP in many ways, it is easy to bash. It is a chain and as such receives a far higher proportion of bad press because its head is far higher above the parapet than a smaller independent. We live and work in an open market, if you have the facts, if you are well informed, if you elect to invest with them and if the objectives are met.. then that's fine. In pure nuts and bolts terms though, it is expensive and that cost has an impact on the return you get from your investments.
But that isn't the (sole) issue. Within the framework of an investment strategy that has definable objectives, is it better to have a good box ticking expensive investment or a poorly performing cheap one?
If a client is informed, then cost becomes less of an issue, after all, buyer beware. The terms of the bonds and retirement account were restrictive though - as I recall, getting out early cost an absolute packet. Notwithstanding that, I know many cracking IFAs who have become StJP 'partners', and I know many appalling IFAs too.
Just because a car salesman sells only one brand, does that make him a bad salesman and the brand less credible than another? IFA can get sniffy about the sales side of it, we too are in the business of selling ourselves, our integrity, our insight - lets not forget. I am here right now simply because my business compels me to be here, I am in business to do business - as are all sensible IFA and StJP employees. If we don't make money to grow our business.. how does that help our clients?
It's easy for an IFA to bash StJP and,with respect to StJP in many ways, it is easy to bash. It is a chain and as such receives a far higher proportion of bad press because its head is far higher above the parapet than a smaller independent. We live and work in an open market, if you have the facts, if you are well informed, if you elect to invest with them and if the objectives are met.. then that's fine. In pure nuts and bolts terms though, it is expensive and that cost has an impact on the return you get from your investments.
But that isn't the (sole) issue. Within the framework of an investment strategy that has definable objectives, is it better to have a good box ticking expensive investment or a poorly performing cheap one?
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