DIY Watch Making

[dr_gn]

Guys,

OK, ok it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, but I'm pretty confident...

I've been reading up on watchmaking as part of a work project. Obviously there's watchmaking in the George Daniels sense, or, more realistically for now (having read his amazing book) modifying an existing movement.

I'm thinking of building my own watch based upon a Seiko or equivalent automatic movement. A 7S26 automatic movement for example, costs only about £30. I'd probably use an existing case for starters, but I've access to enough equipment to eventually make a case (and all other movement components come to that) in future.

The question is: There are dozens of online sources for custom dials, hands, bracelets and straps etc., but is anyone aware of a company that will add custom lettering to one of their standard dials? I'm wanting a small version of something like the very simple Sinn white on black dials, but with my own makers lettering.

Thanks.

[dom9]

Can't help you, really but I'll be following this with interest!

There have been some threads on here where guys have made their own cases/ watches etc.

Could be a cracker - good luck!

[Mr Aston Martin]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24211691


The link is the marvellous story of George Daniels apprentice. I'm sorry I can't provide you an informed answer to your question but I wish you the very best wishes in your endeavour.

[michael gould]

Mr Aston Martin said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24211691


The link is the marvellous story of George Daniels apprentice. I'm sorry I can't provide you an informed answer to your question but I wish you the very best wishes in your endeavour.

amazing story ......and would love to try on a Roger Smith watch

[dr_gn]

Thanks Guys,

I saw that video of George Daniels' apprentice a while ago - awesome story.

From what I can tell, making your own style of watch is quite a popular pastime judging by the number of online materials suppliers out there.

[Tanguero]

dr_gn said:

Guys,

OK, ok it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, but I'm pretty confident...

I've been reading up on watchmaking as part of a work project. Obviously there's watchmaking in the George Daniels sense, or, more realistically for now (having read his amazing book) modifying an existing movement.

I'm thinking of building my own watch based upon a Seiko or equivalent automatic movement. A 7S26 automatic movement for example, costs only about £30. I'd probably use an existing case for starters, but I've access to enough equipment to eventually make a case (and all other movement components come to that) in future.

The question is: There are dozens of online sources for custom dials, hands, bracelets and straps etc., but is anyone aware of a company that will add custom lettering to one of their standard dials? I'm wanting a small version of something like the very simple Sinn white on black dials, but with my own makers lettering.

Thanks.

With regards custom logos, there is some information you may find helpfull here http://forums.watchuseek.com/f6/custom-logo-watch-...

and more in general here
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f6/cases-sources-thre...

Sticking a movement in a case is, as you have read, just scratching the surface of watchmaking, however there are a few things you need to think about. The height and diameter of the movement and hand sizes is fairly obvious. The exact position of the stem relative to the mounting face of the movement is critical and a bit less obvious. The method of fixing the movement into the case (movement ring, case clamps etc)needs careful consideration and the position of dial feet must be correct for the movement.

You main difficulty is likely to be sourcing a case, unless you want to use a second hand one already designed for the movement. Also bear in mind any second hand movement will really need servicing before being cased if you want a reliable watch.

At the end of the day it is sometimes simpler just to make a case to fit the movement rather than buy one, particularly if you want something unusual. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Good luck and have fun!

[dr_gn]

Tanguero said:

dr_gn said:

Guys,

OK, ok it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, but I'm pretty confident...

I've been reading up on watchmaking as part of a work project. Obviously there's watchmaking in the George Daniels sense, or, more realistically for now (having read his amazing book) modifying an existing movement.

I'm thinking of building my own watch based upon a Seiko or equivalent automatic movement. A 7S26 automatic movement for example, costs only about £30. I'd probably use an existing case for starters, but I've access to enough equipment to eventually make a case (and all other movement components come to that) in future.

The question is: There are dozens of online sources for custom dials, hands, bracelets and straps etc., but is anyone aware of a company that will add custom lettering to one of their standard dials? I'm wanting a small version of something like the very simple Sinn white on black dials, but with my own makers lettering.

Thanks.

With regards custom logos, there is some information you may find helpfull here http://forums.watchuseek.com/f6/custom-logo-watch-...

and more in general here
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f6/cases-sources-thre...

Sticking a movement in a case is, as you have read, just scratching the surface of watchmaking, however there are a few things you need to think about. The height and diameter of the movement and hand sizes is fairly obvious. The exact position of the stem relative to the mounting face of the movement is critical and a bit less obvious. The method of fixing the movement into the case (movement ring, case clamps etc)needs careful consideration and the position of dial feet must be correct for the movement.

You main difficulty is likely to be sourcing a case, unless you want to use a second hand one already designed for the movement. Also bear in mind any second hand movement will really need servicing before being cased if you want a reliable watch.

At the end of the day it is sometimes simpler just to make a case to fit the movement rather than buy one, particularly if you want something unusual. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Good luck and have fun!

Thanks for all that information, much appreciated. I will digest it in more detail later when I have more time.

My idea is to buy a cheap, possibly knackered watch off EBay, with an identical movement to the one I will subsequently buy new (possibly an automatic Seiko or ETA derivative watch).

I'll then dismantle the knackered watch and reverse engineer the relevant case internal geometry, wall thicknesses, clearances etc. Once I've got these key features set in CAD, in conjunction with the available faces, hands, crystals and seals etc., plus possibly the original threaded back, spacers and clamps, I will then be free to design and subsequently CNC machine whatever external geometry I want. Add a NATO strap (or whatever) and it's done.

Sounds easy doesn't it?

[dom9]

dr_gn said:

Thanks for all that information, much appreciated. I will digest it in more detail later when I have more time.

My idea is to buy a cheap, possibly knackered watch off EBay, with an identical movement to the one I will subsequently buy new (possibly an automatic Seiko or ETA derivative watch).

I'll then dismantle the knackered watch and reverse engineer the relevant case internal geometry, wall thicknesses, clearances etc. Once I've got these key features set in CAD, in conjunction with the available faces, hands, crystals and seals etc., plus possibly the original threaded back, spacers and clamps, I will then be free to design and subsequently CNC machine whatever external geometry I want. Add a NATO strap (or whatever) and it's done.

Sounds easy doesn't it?

I know we're not to mention fakes on here (shhhh) but I guess that is 'all' they do. They presumably have the 'internal' measurements required for whatever cheap movements they want to use and then just replicate the 'real' watch external and face dimensions etc.

You could set up a service here... Not for fakes but for those wanting a personalised watch for say a best man at a wedding etc!

[dr_gn]

dom9 said:

dr_gn said:

Thanks for all that information, much appreciated. I will digest it in more detail later when I have more time.

My idea is to buy a cheap, possibly knackered watch off EBay, with an identical movement to the one I will subsequently buy new (possibly an automatic Seiko or ETA derivative watch).

I'll then dismantle the knackered watch and reverse engineer the relevant case internal geometry, wall thicknesses, clearances etc. Once I've got these key features set in CAD, in conjunction with the available faces, hands, crystals and seals etc., plus possibly the original threaded back, spacers and clamps, I will then be free to design and subsequently CNC machine whatever external geometry I want. Add a NATO strap (or whatever) and it's done.

Sounds easy doesn't it?

I know we're not to mention fakes on here (shhhh) but I guess that is 'all' they do. They presumably have the 'internal' measurements required for whatever cheap movements they want to use and then just replicate the 'real' watch external and face dimensions etc.

You could set up a service here... Not for fakes but for those wanting a personalised watch for say a best man at a wedding etc!

Yes, that's true re. the fakes, but I think it's also true that ETA movements costing in the region of £100, are used in many high end watches retailing in the £1000's. Yes, you're buying into an image and a reputation with the higher end manufacturers, but you're not necessarily buying exclusivity of movement design. The main reason I bought my Explorer I and was willing to pay for it, was because it was a nice, non-flash watch (IMO) with a non-generic movement.

TBH the watch market makes no sense to me, so I don't think it would be wise for me to get too involved in it commercially!

I just thought it would be nice to wear a watch that I'd designed (in the aesthetic sense) myself.

[dom9]

dr_gn said:

Yes, that's true re. the fakes, but I think it's also true that ETA movements costing in the region of £100, are used in many high end watches retailing in the £1000's. Yes, you're buying into an image and a reputation with the higher end manufacturers, but you're not necessarily buying exclusivity of movement design. The main reason I bought my Explorer I and was willing to pay for it, was because it was a nice, non-flash watch (IMO) with a non-generic movement.

TBH the watch market makes no sense to me, so I don't think it would be wise for me to get too involved in it commercially!

I just thought it would be nice to wear a watch that I'd designed (in the aesthetic sense) myself.

To be fair to the high-end manufacturers, I think they generally buy the better (decorated etc) ETA movements, like the 7750 that has appeared in IWCs and alike... But you're right, there seems to be a fair old margin in many high end watches and that's why I only go in-house these days!

Good luck with the project and please keep this updated!

[Tanguero]

dr_gn said:

Sounds easy doesn't it?

Thats what I thought several years and several thousand pounds worth of specialist equipment ago.

[dr_gn]

Tanguero said:

dr_gn said:

Sounds easy doesn't it?

Thats what I thought several years and several thousand pounds worth of specialist equipment ago.

Any pictures of the results??

[dr_gn]

dom9 said:

dr_gn said:

Yes, that's true re. the fakes, but I think it's also true that ETA movements costing in the region of £100, are used in many high end watches retailing in the £1000's. Yes, you're buying into an image and a reputation with the higher end manufacturers, but you're not necessarily buying exclusivity of movement design. The main reason I bought my Explorer I and was willing to pay for it, was because it was a nice, non-flash watch (IMO) with a non-generic movement.

TBH the watch market makes no sense to me, so I don't think it would be wise for me to get too involved in it commercially!

I just thought it would be nice to wear a watch that I'd designed (in the aesthetic sense) myself.

To be fair to the high-end manufacturers, I think they generally buy the better (decorated etc) ETA movements, like the 7750 that has appeared in IWCs and alike... But you're right, there seems to be a fair old margin in many high end watches and that's why I only go in-house these days!

Good luck with the project and please keep this updated!

Thanks. I will keep it updated, but it's not going to be a quick project!

Just had a quick look on EBay for a 7750 movement, and they are about £215 new. Not sure if there are variations on that movement though.

I guess you could even remove the rotor, machine/etch it with your own logo or name and refit it in a case with a glass back and 99.99% of people wouldn't know it wasn't a totally custom movement?

It's all good stuff!

[Tanguero]

dr_gn said:

Tanguero said:

dr_gn said:

Sounds easy doesn't it?

Thats what I thought several years and several thousand pounds worth of specialist equipment ago.

Any pictures of the results??

The last link I posted was my latest little project. My tourbillon movement has a while to go yet...another year or so should do it.

[Tanguero]

dr_gn said:

Thanks. I will keep it updated, but it's not going to be a quick project!

Just had a quick look on EBay for a 7750 movement, and they are about £215 new. Not sure if there are variations on that movement though.

I would be very suspicious of a "new" 7750 for £215 especially off eBay. The cheapest trade price from Cousins UK is £375 + VAT for loose pack and £425 for sealed. The phrase "too good to be true" springs to mind!

dr_gn said:

I guess you could even remove the rotor, machine/etch it with your own logo or name and refit it in a case with a glass back and 99.99% of people wouldn't know it wasn't a totally custom movement?

Passing off a well known movement as your own work is not going to go undetected long! (Or unprosecuted once Swatch get hold of you)

[dr_gn]

Tanguero said:

dr_gn said:

Thanks. I will keep it updated, but it's not going to be a quick project!

Just had a quick look on EBay for a 7750 movement, and they are about £215 new. Not sure if there are variations on that movement though.

I would be very suspicious of a "new" 7750 for £215 especially off eBay. The cheapest trade price from Cousins UK is £375 + VAT for loose pack and £425 for sealed. The phrase "too good to be true" springs to mind!

dr_gn said:

I guess you could even remove the rotor, machine/etch it with your own logo or name and refit it in a case with a glass back and 99.99% of people wouldn't know it wasn't a totally custom movement?

Passing off a well known movement as your own work is not going to go undetected long! (Or unprosecuted once Swatch get hold of you)

Yeah, agreed. It was just a quick completed listing search from EBay - and it was from Egypt...

Question is, if I simply etched my name into the rotor, is that passing a movement off as my own work? Even so, you're assuming I'd be offering it for sale, which isn't really the intention - it's just a personal project at least for this version!

Just had a sneaky look at your project - great work, congratulations. I do have a Myford ML7 and a well equipped workshop at home, but the intention is to make the casing at work. One of my hobbies is plastic model building, so I do have an appreciation of how tricky it is to fiddle about with small components.

[Tanguero]

dr_gn said:

Yeah, agreed. It was just a quick completed listing search from EBay - and it was from Egypt...

Question is, if I simply etched my name into the rotor, is that passing a movement off as my own work? Even so, you're assuming I'd be offering it for sale, which isn't really the intention - it's just a personal project at least for this version!

Just had a sneaky look at your project - great work, congratulations. I do have a Myford ML7 and a well equipped workshop at home, but the intention is to make the casing at work. One of my hobbies is plastic model building, so I do have an appreciation of how tricky it is to fiddle about with small components.

Thanks, you will need a watchmakers lathe as well as the Myford if you are going to get into modifying or making movements along with a few of the more specialist tools like a staking set, jewelling press, uprighting tool and a Jacot tool - and that is just to begin with!

[dr_gn]

Tanguero said:

dr_gn said:

Yeah, agreed. It was just a quick completed listing search from EBay - and it was from Egypt...

Question is, if I simply etched my name into the rotor, is that passing a movement off as my own work? Even so, you're assuming I'd be offering it for sale, which isn't really the intention - it's just a personal project at least for this version!

Just had a sneaky look at your project - great work, congratulations. I do have a Myford ML7 and a well equipped workshop at home, but the intention is to make the casing at work. One of my hobbies is plastic model building, so I do have an appreciation of how tricky it is to fiddle about with small components.

Thanks, you will need a watchmakers lathe as well as the Myford if you are going to get into modifying or making movements along with a few of the more specialist tools like a staking set, jewelling press, uprighting tool and a Jacot tool - and that is just to begin with!

I think for now, just the case is a big enough challenge!

Thanks.

[dr_gn]

So, I sourced a watch to experiment with via. this thread:

http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...



I made a start; first job was to remove the bracelet, unscrew the back, remove the crown and stem and press out the crystal:



Next job is to measure the case internals and talk to a few people at work about how to machine the case back thread. Possibly thread milling?



I'll also be buying a hand removal tool, and some materials for photo-etch. This is a process I've wanted to learn for a while for use on my scale models, and it may be useful for making a dial. I found this website with a great "how-to":

http://www.thescalereview.com/2014/03/26/model-sch...

Edited by dr_gn on Thursday 27th March 22:44

[Tanguero]

As you have a Seiko 5 you may find this helpful if you haven't read it already. http://www.clockmaker.com.au/diy_seiko_7s26/

Also do yourself a favor and get hand removing levers rather than a presto type hand remover. Far more versatile and rather less likely to knacker the hands or dial.