Auto-box question.............

Auto-box question.............

Author
Discussion

southendpier

4,039 posts

158 months

Tuesday 15th March 2005
quotequote all
i family member has a s-type r 2002, had exactly the same lurching from the gearbox. this was put right by Creamer jag dealer in Kensington, London.

in addition the front brakes also burnt out i think this was due to a caliper issue.

there have also been faults with the sat nav system (not working at all) and sunroof.

still a GREAT car though.

milesj

15 posts

161 months

Friday 18th March 2005
quotequote all
I am quite pleased that this thread has returned to the top of the list. as far as any damage caused to the transmmision is concerned, i can't give any knoledgeble advice on that. However, on approaching traffic lights etc. I always allow enough distance so that I can creep forward every 3 or 5 seconds. The reason I do this is to prevent distorsion of the brake disc's, from uneven heat distribution i.e. The brake pads insulating the discs from being cooled at the point of contact. If you consider this theory, then some of the componants of the transmission are in the same predicament: submersed in ATF, "or not" (oil being almost as much a coolant as a lubricant) also consider the clutches within the transmission (whilst engaged and partly submerged) are preventing even heat loss.
Does this make any sense? would appreciate any thoughts on the issue!

Miles

dave_3d

39 posts

160 months

Friday 18th March 2005
quotequote all

I drive very gently.

I get terrible brake squeal when braking to a gentle halt.
www.dmmultimedia.com/s_images/creaking_2.AVI 1.7 mbs

And after 13k miles my back brakes had burned out to the bare metal !!!!!

www.dmmultimedia.com/belgium/burned_out_brakes.jpg

And because I come to a slow rolling halt I get this LURCH - EVERY BLOODY time now, which is unacceptable on ANY car nevermind one I foolishly paid 45k for.

Jaguar haven't bothered to inform me yet of the new upgrade in software. In the hands of my lawyers now.

2.5 years and counting of a lousy car and pathetic non-existant service.

Jaguar have lost my custom for life and my father, who has owned and bought Jaguars the last 50 years(owns 3 at present) will not be buying again.

Dave

dave_3d

39 posts

160 months

Saturday 19th March 2005
quotequote all

Sorry wrong link to my brakes :

www.dmmultimedia.com/belgium/pads_to_the_metal_12kmiles.jpg

Either way a gearbox and brakes should last more than 12,000 miles. Even in a Jaguar.

Dave

triple7

Original Poster:

3,851 posts

166 months

Saturday 19th March 2005
quotequote all
dave_3d said:

Sorry wrong link to my brakes :

www.dmmultimedia.com/belgium/pads_to_the_metal_12kmiles.jpg

Either way a gearbox and brakes should last more than 12,000 miles. Even in a Jaguar.

Dave

Most Jag's are fine, as with anything probs do occur.

Still not getting a result eh? Like I said get rid of it and enjoy life again, it's not worth it.

Hope you are sorted very soon.

G
Advertisement

dave_3d

39 posts

160 months

Sunday 20th March 2005
quotequote all

I believe that there are good Jaguars. But to get stonewalled, ignored (I wrote to Ms. Boerio) and basically told to get lost when you have proven faults (Mountain of TSBs, AA & TCS Engineer's reports) is not the behaviour of a "Premium" manufacturer of cars. It is not what I expect from a company where their MD, Ms. Boerio states :

"Our customers are those who seek out and demand excellence."

ESPECIALLY as I paid 45k cash. I will NEVER stand back and let someone rip me off of that amount of money. I am not a fool.

I've been bogged down in legal shenanigans for the last year.

Best the dealer can come up with is to offer 5,000 less than bottom book on my car (while offering cars for sale with the EXACT spec and mileage (18k) at TWICE the price they offered me on their forecourt) and giving me 7 days to reply to that "secial offer". That was sent on Christmas Eve, I returned to find that the "offer" was no longer valid. They knew I would be out of the country !!!! I told them !!!!

As my lawyer has pointed out to them, the ONLY resonable explanation for such a paltry offer is they know very well the car is a lemon.

I have NEVER experienced such downright criminal behaviour from a professional business. It is shocking.

The minute I nail them - I'm turning my back on them and walking.

Until then I don't care HOW long it takes. I will be vindicated.

Word of warning : NEVER EVER buy a Jaguar in Switzerland. If you encounter difficulties - you're on your own. Jaguar just don't want to know.

Dave

John Millar

93 posts

165 months

Sunday 20th March 2005
quotequote all
I can understand how you feel, it's infuriating.
I wish you success with nailing them, whoever is treating you this way is causing real damage to the brand.
Jaguar have a great heritage that I will never besmirch, but these people are tearing it apart. You just have to remember that the real Jaguar people, the designers, visionaries and the very people who created these magnificent cars will be remembered when this current bunch of wreckers have long gone.
I admired Jaguar before they came, and what's more, will do after they're gone.

XXXAngelXXX

1,575 posts

157 months

Thursday 28th April 2005
quotequote all
I bought about 12 Jaguars new in the last 9 years here in Stuttgart Germany (btw the local dealer is owned by the Emil Frey group)...

And i had to give back about 4 of them after like 100 miles with massive faults and probs . Mercedes gearbox wasnt better - i had on 3 XKrs problems with these . engine sticked into secured mode without a reason (onboard diagnostic - said overheating gear box hahaha)...

For now we own a Jag XKR convertible 2003 and a Jag Coupe XK8 2003 both have the lurching gearbox problem !!

Both have a problem with using brakes very fast - both have problems with the correct closing of the sidewindows - both have problems with loosing water coolant - both have problems with noise in the rear wheels - well i got much more but probs i cant remind them all.

PS: forgive me my bad english - i am Kraut - but addicted to english cars...

[img]www.s-immob.de/jags.jpg[/img]



>> Edited by XXXAngelXXX on Thursday 28th April 07:52

Graylion

2 posts

156 months

Wednesday 4th May 2005
quotequote all
[quote=triple7]When I'm sitting in traffic jams, I slip the car into neutral, save holding on the brake. When the traffic moves I engage Drive.

If I continually slip in and out of gear, does this screw anything up?

Boring question, but I was thinking about this today.

Answers on a postcard...............


Common sense and road courtesy says you should change to neutral (never "Park") and use the handbrake when stopped at traffic lights or in jams. Running an engine against a clutch or torque converter is NEVER going to make it or the transmission last longer! Brake lights can dazzle the driver behind, especially high level types. All starts should be handbrake starts. Easier with an auto as you can use your left foot for the brake. Cheers, Lionel

John Millar

93 posts

165 months

Wednesday 4th May 2005
quotequote all
There will be less wear in the transmission (so i'm told)if you leave your knob where it is at the lights, or in a jam.

>> Edited by John Millar on Wednesday 4th May 15:49

XXXAngelXXX

1,575 posts

157 months

Thursday 5th May 2005
quotequote all
A Jaguar dealer near Stuttgart managed my gear box probs - they reprogrammed the engine and the gearbox - now everything is cool

jonscz

830 posts

166 months

Friday 6th May 2005
quotequote all
Hi all, just to let you know that my XKR (6 speed) has just had a gearbox "reflash" (or repropram) to cure the "lurch" problem and the car was fine for a couple of days, but today it did the "lurch" again a couple of times, albeit far less violently and when the car was "cold". Thought they'd FINALLY cured it, but seems not quite there yet.......will keep you posted. Cheers, Jonscz

triple7

Original Poster:

3,851 posts

166 months

Friday 6th May 2005
quotequote all
Sorry to hear that Jon.

Hope you get it sorted.

You free on Sunday?

G

XXXAngelXXX

1,575 posts

157 months

Friday 6th May 2005
quotequote all
@ jonscz:

they have to reprogramm THE ENGINE AND THE GEARBOX - not the gearbox alone - and the dealer had to call Jaguar Germany to get some sort of a code ...

btw i had to drive for like 250 kms without SPORT engaged and NO KICKDOWN - cause the gearbox has to relearn wootever that means

>> Edited by XXXAngelXXX on Friday 6th May 16:03

jonscz

830 posts

166 months

Friday 6th May 2005
quotequote all
Hi again, will tell dealer about the engine and gearbox reprograms (as car has to go back for couple of other bits, anyway) - thanks Angel. As for Sunday, Gazza, sorry I'm working and due to all this election reaction etc there's no chance of time off and I'm a bit gutted as it sounds like it'll be a great day. Let me know how it goes and get some piccies...(and watch out in that convoy - remember to leave b i g g a p s between cars !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)hmmmmmmmmmmm.......cheers all, Jon

>> Edited by jonscz on Friday 6th May 16:48

dave_3d

39 posts

160 months

Saturday 7th May 2005
quotequote all

Hi Jon,

Apparently the latest flash upgrade for both the engine and gearbox is the one to get. It is TSB S307-17 (More S-Type TSBs details on my website). The owner should have been informed of the procedure of leaving the car in normal mode for around 50 miles - upgraded for this new release:

---------------------------------------------
Note: The customer must be advised to use normal mode (not sports mode) for 200 miles (321 km) and to try to avoid full throttle/kick down over this period.
---------------------------------------------

With all previous flash upgrades the owner should have been informed of this period. In addition there is a procedure immediately after reprogramming where:

--------------------------------------------
Carry out the adaption drive cycle road test:

Drive the vehicle for ten miles in an urban environment to provoke the transmission
to carry out upshifts and downshifts.
Use light throttle only and do not exceed 2500 rpm.
At one point in the drive cycle, when the traffic conditions allow, accelerate gently to 60 mph (95 km/h) then allow the vehicle to coast down to 25 mph (40 km/h).
------------------------------------------------


Good luck with the upgrade. If it works please let me know.

XXXAngelXXX : Have you passed this 200 mile 320 Km point yet ??

The jury is still out on this latest upgrade. I know people who still Lurch, but they are unsure the exact upgrade they have had. I have not been offered this upgrade by anyone at Jaguar. They are VERY aware of my plight.

Still Lurching .... for over 2.5 years with countless passengers having gone away shaking there heads ..

Dave www.theLurch.com S-Type Ownership Experience | TSBS etc.

XXXAngelXXX

1,575 posts

157 months

Saturday 7th May 2005
quotequote all
yes i passed the 200 miles / 320 kms ( i drive my car every day) - and still no lurching ....

Btw i talked to my Jag dealer and he said they are aware of that gearbox prob and how to fix it for the S-Type since 2003.....

Now i have to get the XK8 coupe of my wife to the dealer to get the lurching gearbox fixed - i drove her car yesterday and this problem really sucks...

dave_3d

39 posts

160 months

Saturday 7th May 2005
quotequote all
Thanks for the feedback, Angel.

I'm surprised your dealer says this exists since 2003. There have been many TSB upgrades all to do with the ZF gear shifting but Jaguar have never admitted directly to lurching - even if your Dealer and other Dealers I have spoken to know of this LURCH !

My Dealer still will not admit a fault exists - and state that I can't show them the Lurch.

I keep explaining that it happens worst when cold - not after 45 minutes of Autobahn driving to get to my Dealer. It is an intermittent fault. That was why I had my car tested by the AA and TCS who both have stated CLEARY in writing I have the Lurch.

Dealer is still saying I can't show them the Lurch. ???? I just don't understand them !

With the amount of feedback I am getting from around the world it is VERY CLEAR that some Jaguars with the ZF box do LURCH and Jaguar is AWARE of this.

Dave www.theLurch.com

XXXAngelXXX

1,575 posts

157 months

Sunday 8th May 2005
quotequote all
Listen Dave: i told ya already- i had major probs with an Emil Frey owned dealer Called Schwabengarage here in Stuttgart - they simply suck....

i get our cars serviced like 50 km away from here now and i buy my cars in Cologne

PS: i saw the TSB from 2003 for the S-type with my own eyes - my dealer showed it to me ...

For our XKs the new TSB was like from April i think..

dave_3d

39 posts

160 months

Monday 9th May 2005
quotequote all
Hi Angel.

I hear what you say about Emil Frey - but I must use them as they are the sole importer here - Jaguar's offices are in the same compound (go work that out!). And it is with these people I must "deal" with.

About the TSBs - I have a copy of ALL these TSBs. There have been many TSBs that comment on issues with gearchanging and I have had my gearbox re-flashed about 10 times with the latest program. And they all follow the same pattern:

My S-Type runs brilliantly for about 2/3 weeks then the Lurch comes back. Others I know have the identical experience.

That is why I asked you if you have experienced the Lurch after your reflash.

The latest TSB S307-17 states that they clear the adaptive points and reflash BOTH the Gearbox and Engine management systems - that is NEW. I have not been offered that. ?!?!?!!?!? They know clearly about my problem but NOT ONCE have they contacted me about any new TSB - WHY ??????

Either way Jaguar and Emil Frey refuse to acknowledge ANY fault with my Gearbox.

So ... I must have been "imagining" that I have been lurching for 2.5 years. And the AA must be mistaken. And the TCS must be mistaken. And Jaguar's Test driver must be mistaken. And you and many, many others must be mistaken.

It is very simple - Somebody is lying.

Dave www.theLurch.com