RE: Stripped bare: PH Footnote

RE: Stripped bare: PH Footnote

Wednesday 11th April 2018

Stripped bare: PH Footnote

How far is too far when it comes to equipment-lite sports cars?



In a story you can read about in a few days on PH, I spent the Easter weekend at Anglesey in a Lotus Exige. With lots of other Lotus Exiges in fact, for the owners club's annual Easter get together. Jolly good fun it was too, despite the weather's best efforts.

The Exige in question - a Cup 430 - was almost perfect for the weekend, small and just about supple enough to enjoy on roads while fast and exciting enough to thrill on one of the UK's best circuits. It was a joy, actually, bar one small thing: there wasn't a radio. And when Anglesey is on the other side of the next country, that's a bit of a pain.


Now I know it's a 'Cup' version and Lotus more than anybody else cares about saving every last kilo (right down to a new seatbelt anchorage frame), but it is still a road car. It's designed to be the ultimate Exige for the public highway and the track, and the spec should reflect that - some kind of radio and air-con (a £1,250 option) should be standard, in my opinion. (In case you're wondering I used some headphones for the journey, but that's far from ideal and not always appreciated in the eyes of the law.)

I'm not just being a wuss, honest - in something like a 3-Eleven or a Caterham, doing away with every last frippery makes sense, because they are about the very essence of driving and the least distractions possible. If it's something you'd seriously consider towing, then it's fine to dispense with any creature comfort. Anything above that, though, really should allow the driver to listen to their own music in sweat-free comfort. Doing without is at the very least inconvenient for the customer, and in some cases feels downright cynical.


Because what does air-con and a radio weigh really? 15 kilos, maybe 20? Not only will the gain from eliminating those be minimal on a car weighing comfortably more than a tonne, it's really not going to be worth it. Even if you could sense a fraction more agility at the circuit (which you probably couldn't), the price you're having to pay is being bored and overheated the rest of the time. Doesn't sound fair.

Lotus of course isn't the only brand to charge more for adding near necessities back in, and its cause is more laudable than most. I'm also just as scornful of those making a virtue of binning those near necessities; see Porsche 911 Carrera T, where its 20kg weight saving for a "puristic driving experience" mandates getting rid of the PCM infotainment. Of course any customer paying £85k for a 911 will add it back in (it's a no-cost option, granted), but that means returning virtually all the weight 'lost' by what is supposedly a pared back special. Let's not ignore the M4 GTS either, with its fancy door cards that eliminate the quite useful storage space normal cards have, and which replaced regular handles with straps you had to pull the door shut with. Making you look like a berk. For a car 27kg lighter than an M4.


Then, of course, we're onto the extras you might need to make the most of your track day, road-racer special. Ignoring the argument about why the cars aren't produced in their most focused specification to start with, how much of what you're encouraged to add on will pay dividends? Will a GT3 be markedly worse without £3,000-worth of Clubsport package and seats and harness? Probably not. Are you really going to be going hard enough for long enough to make the most of ceramic brakes? Those thousands could replace a lot of discs and pads. How much carbon must you add, and money must you spend, to save any meaningful weight?

Whether you think this posturing or not, there's a more tangible contributing factor to specifying a track car the 'right' way - they become more desirable secondhand. I'm as guilty of that as anyone (but will of course change, immediately, from this point forward...) in using Clubsport as a keyword and looking for desirable options. Though, of course, part of that could actually be about the potential posturing with friends - nobody wants to look soft now, do they? But take a look at this M3 CSL, even a couple of years ago with a higher asking price than many other because of being the lightest, without radio, A/C or nav. And what a terrible pain that must have been. Or, if you're being cynical, what an interesting investment..


The muddle gets deeper, you see. To make the car more desirable secondhand, you'll want the more expensive track focused options. Conveniently, those options should (by varying degrees) make for the best version to drive of this particular model. Only you can't drive it, because those looking at the cars as investment or collection pieces want low mileage and unmolested cars. How often do you see GT3s and whatnot advertised with "never used on track"? A few, I'd wager, so you have the most hardcore version of a track car you're scared about driving - what on earth is the point? The Golf GTI Clubsport S came as standard with air-con and with an infotainment - good, because it's a great road car as well - although some cars in the UK were specced AC-less. And I'll bet those cars are the ones that are more prized in future, but does that really validate those years of hot and bothered driving? Or indeed leaving it alone and not driving at all? I don't think so.


Personally, it would be nice to see manufacturers being a bit less greedy with options prices, but that isn't going to happen. Neither is the value attributed to certain options, however misplaced it may be. Tragic cliché though it surely sounds, I think there's as much worth in paying to improve yourself as there is in your car. On the BMW M5 launch at Anglesey - where all the cars were fitted with £7k ceramic brakes, of course - instructors were on hand; even with what I thought was a reasonable knowledge of the track, 20 minutes with one of those guys had be more confident, faster and happier. A lot of those lessons can of course be transferred to other cars, just as they were a fortnight later with the Exige in fact, and even the best track options in the world can't do that. So buy the track day car you want in the spec you want, because it should still be pretty desirable even without that aero pack, seat upgrade or forged wheel, and get some tuition to really, properly make the most of it. The air-con you've kept in will keep you both cool, as well...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Final Exige table pics: Will Aron

 

Author
Discussion

skylarking808

Original Poster:

806 posts

87 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
How many road cars have been made virtually unpleasant to drive on public roads for a couple of track days a year?

I would rather have a great road car that could handle a track than a track car that could not handle the road or have any comforts.
How far is too far? Depends on how tempting/useful they are for drivers feedback for me - and how deep ones wallet!

unsprung

5,467 posts

125 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all


The gap has never been greater than today. That is: the kit that is mandatory for the road and what is ideal for performance at the track.

Probably never been a better time to offer a track-only car -- especially one that begins with a small footprint and low mass.




99dndd

2,091 posts

90 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
I don't get the Golf Clubsport S.

Why take a hatchback famed for its rear legroom then remove the rear seats?

You could put the same drivetrain in a 2 seater body and instantly make something better.

TartanPaint

2,992 posts

140 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
PH said:
I'm not just being a wuss, honest
I respectfully disagree.

CS Garth

2,860 posts

106 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
Reminds me of all the cyclists who spend thousands shaving grams off their componentry when they would be better off losing half a stone and having a st before they ride.

Personally I'm waiting for a track special that comes with a full mahogany drinks cabinet and front boot mounted anvil for on the fly blacksmithing.

skidskid

284 posts

142 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
It all depends what you're willing to put up with. No radio? No problem, listen to music on your phone and use earphones for the motorway stint to your fav B road. You have to do that any way in my VX220 as you can hear the radio because the road noise it to loud. Air con? If its a lotus just take the roof off. Its even lighter then too!

I added some carpets to my VX to make it feel abit more homely and promote year round use. It added next to no weight but made the car much nicer to live with.

Everything is a trade off with how much it puts you off driving it.

Dale487

1,335 posts

124 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
Historically I was in the lighter the better camp - I'd question people putting parking sensors and the like in an M3 CSL and felt that the only accepted options on a 968 CS were performance enhancing, not a sun roof & the like.

But now I've changed my mind, a great driver's car should be as usable as possible.

Sat Nav - helps you get to your destination (either without arguing with your passenger or trying to map read & drive on your own), be it a race track or hotel miles from home

Radio - something to keep the boredom at bay on your journey

Air Con - keeps you cool & comfortable but also helps demist the car

Parking sensors - makes parking at your destination just that little bit easier, because you're bound to arrive at the hotel & there be only one awkward parking space left

Dreaming on the Porsche configurator I came to the conclusion I'd need two 911Rs (R not RS) - one with all the niceties & one in the lightest possible specification (best of both worlds!).

Edited by Dale487 on Wednesday 11th April 16:55

rxe

6,700 posts

104 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
The only real issue is the air-con, and that's not really an issue.

If you need a radio, then a phone + bluetooth speaker will do fine. Ditto sat nav - I use phone sat nav in preference to pretty much any modern system. Millions of people smoke around in cars without air-con or broken air con every day, no one dies.


Dale487

1,335 posts

124 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
rxe said:
The only real issue is the air-con, and that's not really an issue.

If you need a radio, then a phone + bluetooth speaker will do fine. Ditto sat nav - I use phone sat nav in preference to pretty much any modern system. Millions of people smoke around in cars without air-con or broken air con every day, no one dies.
No one dies but I don't feel the tenth of a second you reduce off your lap time is worth the discomfort (well for 99.99% of people) - after my first car which had no air con and a black interior (an oven in summer) I vowed to never buy a car without air con again, something I've stuck to ever since.

MrAverage

821 posts

128 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
I wouldn't own a track oriented car as my only vehicle so I'd want it stripped to bare bones for the full race car effect.

As for using it everyday then I'd want it liveable/usable.

Never really use Aircon so could happily live without that but I always have the radio on so would want to keep it.

900T-R

20,404 posts

258 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
Never missed air con in my drop top car, really. It's not like I'm living in some hot climate that would make me put the lid on in the midst of summer. Weight apart, it's a fair bit of complication that I can do without when working in the engine bay. Having to remove some of the A/C gubbins for snything more than minor servicing and then having the system re-gassed for a weekend/occasional car? Not for me.

But then again, I don't use the A/C on more than a handful of days a year in my daily slogger, either. Conversely, I tend to be cold in my car for most of the year - even the TVR with its V8 heater halfway into the cabin... Now heated seats is one item I am most definitely going to add...

Itsallicanafford

2,772 posts

160 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
Should be a moot point really as a trailer and a nice comfy tow car is the answer and lessens the impact of a mechanical issue.

2Btoo

3,431 posts

204 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
99dndd said:
I don't get the Golf Clubsport S.

Why take a hatchback famed for its rear legroom then remove the rear seats?

You could put the same drivetrain in a 2 seater body and instantly make something better.
I'll await the flaming but that's essentially what they did with the early TT's, and their loveliness went no further than their appearance.

Your question is a good one though. If you are going to do away with all the things that make a FWD hatchback good (decent boot, four doors, four seats etc) then why stick with the highly compromised drivetrain layout? Two seats and no boot opens the doors to RWD, a much better weight layout and proper handling.

suffolk009

5,441 posts

166 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
A couple of years ago I was talking to a maker of small volume sports cars. I asked him why he didn't just use a drawstring (or similar) on the doors instead of some silly heavy door latch system that he was trying to make work and look less like some awful bought in item.

He said that when Porsche do it, people think it's a bit of genius light-weight design. If they did it people would say they couldn't even build a proper door latch.

Not exactly the radio/aircon discussion of above, but an interesting point in engineering less weight into a car. If I was ordering a new Exige I'd definately have the radio, not sure about the aircon though. Mostly I'd have the roof off, but for the one or two occasions a year you need it....

Thorburn

2,399 posts

194 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
Aes87 said:
I always thought they got the balance right in the 90s with cars like the Z3 M and the NSX - nothing unnecessary but still comfortable, with every aspect of the driving experience properly thought through and engineered by people who knew what they were doing and actually cared.

These days it’s all just a marketing exercise
One of the things I love about my Evora 400 - it has all the kit I want (air-con, sat-nav, electric mirrors, heated seats and a button to make to make the exhaust really loud) and nothing really that I don't.

Article said:
The Golf GTI Clubsport S came as standard with air-con and with an infotainment - good, because it's a great road car as well - although some cars in the UK were specced AC-less.
I'd imagine on something like the Golf it would be an engineering nightmare to rip out the infotainment system. They aren't just a sat-nav and music player, they control a lot of additional functionality and customisation options for the car - hence even the entry level models have an 8" touchscreen.

Not to say it can't be done (or people don't do it aftermarket and accept that those things won't function anymore), but it probably wouldn't be deemed worth going to the effort of doing it as an OEM.

Edited by Thorburn on Wednesday 11th April 18:40

DooM_II

95 posts

133 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
Good article, lightweight versions are highly collectable but less enjoyable most of the time.

I'm under 40 but I'm slowly starting to think that cars are made for driving and unless you live near deserted roads, you can't do without some comfort goodies.

DanielSan

18,822 posts

168 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
900T-R said:
Never missed air con in my drop top car, really. It's not like I'm living in some hot climate that would make me put the lid on in the midst of summer. Weight apart, it's a fair bit of complication that I can do without when working in the engine bay. Having to remove some of the A/C gubbins for snything more than minor servicing and then having the system re-gassed for a weekend/occasional car? Not for me.

But then again, I don't use the A/C on more than a handful of days a year in my daily slogger, either. Conversely, I tend to be cold in my car for most of the year - even the TVR with its V8 heater halfway into the cabin... Now heated seats is one item I am most definitely going to add...
Why not use the air con in your daily for heat/de-misting faster as well as keeping cool? It does both, I’m always amazed how many people only use it for keeping cool in summer...

85Carrera

3,503 posts

238 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
Dale487 said:
Parking sensors - makes parking at your destination just that little bit easier, because you're bound to arrive at the hotel & there be only one awkward parking space left



Edited by Dale487 on Wednesday 11th April 16:55
You do know it's possible to park using your mirrors, don't you?

Avoids the irritating beeping too ...

85Carrera

3,503 posts

238 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
2Btoo said:
99dndd said:
I don't get the Golf Clubsport S.

Why take a hatchback famed for its rear legroom then remove the rear seats?

You could put the same drivetrain in a 2 seater body and instantly make something better.
I'll await the flaming but that's essentially what they did with the early TT's, and their loveliness went no further than their appearance.

Your question is a good one though. If you are going to do away with all the things that make a FWD hatchback good (decent boot, four doors, four seats etc) then why stick with the highly compromised drivetrain layout? Two seats and no boot opens the doors to RWD, a much better weight layout and proper handling.
Only worth doing if you do it properly like Renault and stick an engine where the rear seats used to be ...

Mound Dawg

1,915 posts

175 months

Wednesday 11th April 2018
quotequote all
99dndd said:
I don't get the Golf Clubsport S.

Why take a hatchback famed for its rear legroom then remove the rear seats?

You could put the same drivetrain in a 2 seater body and instantly make something better.
Nail/head.