If you buy a car on finance you can not afford it?

[Court_S]

Durzel said:

I find the whole thing weird really. It's a subject that really ought not to wind anyone up, but it does.

Someone financing a car makes no difference to me whatsoever. It doesn't affect me in any way.

The only way it could be considered as affecting would be if I actually gave a st about what people thought about what I drive. I've had supercars and regular cars and they've always been for me and me alone, I've never cared what people thought about it one way or the other. On the contrary I've always felt rather embarassed at the idea that some people have expressed that it somehow made me a "better person" to have a Porsche or a Ferrari or whatever.

I don't really have any time for people who think like that, so I struggle to find the offence in anyone financing, leasing, renting, hiring or otherwise obtaining a car that they enjoy.

I think the people who do find it distasteful that others own cars "above their station in life" realise their argument is borne solely out of emotionality rather than logic, simply irritation that those people are appearing to be as affluent as them. The guy that pointed out that it's not so much about taking offence at the fact they have something on finance, it's the dilution of their own affluence that grates, because they place so much value on it - really nailed it. There's always someone else richer out there, living one's life in pursuit of superficiality seems really hollow to me.

So yeah, get finance or don't get finance - whatever works and makes you happy

Edited by Durzel on Monday 10th February 11:10

That's one of the most sensible posts on this thread which seems to have sprung back into life over the last few days!

[Red 4]

Deep Thought said:

Red 4 said:

It's just those people who drone on about PCP being a purchase plan when the vast majority of people who PCP will never actually buy/ own the car.
It seems to really grate on some people.

In fairness, it seems to really grate on you for some reason that you need to be keeping on about it being rental.

Arguably its "rental" but it is an HP - Hire Purchase - agreement.

People who talk about people "renting" a car on PCP tend to be doing so to make a derogatory point.

Any car i've ever had on PCP or HP for that matter, i've considered my own and treated it accordingly. I certainly didnt treat it like a rental car. Sometimes i've went on to pay off the PCP or HP and keep the car, sometimes i've traded back in before or at the end of the term. Once i think, we handed a car back at the end of the term (because the car was worth wayyyy less than the residual)

You seem to be viewing the "rental" aspect as a negative. I see it as a positive. If someone on PCP / HP wants to keep the car they can pay it off, if they want to hand it back they can.

It doesn't grate on me. I don't rent anything and have zero debt.(very small mortgage with a very low % rate notwithstanding).

I don't care how other people spend their money.

I just find it highly amusing when people try to justify their debt.

Sometimes it can make sense but in the majority of cases it says they have negligible assets and not much cash.

I read somewhere that The Average Joe is worth £150k and has £4k in the bank.

That means they can't afford to buy that shiny Audi no matter how much they want it.

[xjay1337]

Weekendrebuild said:

okgo said:

Not sure why people see this as a discussion point. Pretty much every new car on the road is on their driveway via some sort of finance, HP,PCP. straight lease etc. The world has changed, cars are not a mark of wealth or whatever else, just how much money someone choses to put towards cars vs other areas of their life. Obviously one could assume that with a highly exotic car, that's going to attract multiple £k per month payments that he likely has a few more quid than the next person, but literally anything beyond that doesn't tend to mean all that much.

I agree although my argument is it isn’t your car until the final payment is made . Same goes for a mortgage on a house it’s the banks until the final payment is made . That’s a great day !!

While you are right mr Weekend, why does it matter really, and who actually cares?

[Durzel]

Red 4 said:

I read somewhere that The Average Joe is worth £150k and has £4k in the bank.

That means they can't afford to buy that shiny Audi no matter how much they want it.

And yet these cars keep being sold, and people in PCP cycles make their payments and manage to avoid defaulting, for the most part.

That says to me that they can afford it. Hardly anyone can afford to be made redundant, but things like mortgages that these people also can't afford to keep up for long - using the same "money in the bank" criteria - aren't looked upon in the same sneering way as car finance payments, for some reason.

I keep coming back to the simple calculus with PCP/lease vs cash. If you can find a deal which means your TCO is less than you think the depreciation will be, then finance is perfectly appropriate and probably the right financial decision. It's a very simple calculation, really.

[Red 4]

Durzel said:

Red 4 said:

I read somewhere that The Average Joe is worth £150k and has £4k in the bank.

That means they can't afford to buy that shiny Audi no matter how much they want it.

And yet these cars keep being sold, and people in PCP cycles make their payments and manage to avoid defaulting, for the most part.

That says to me that they can afford it. Hardly anyone can afford to be made redundant, but things like mortgages that these people also can't afford to keep up for long - using the same "money in the bank" criteria - aren't looked upon in the same sneering way as car finance payments, for some reason.

I keep coming back to the simple calculus with PCP/lease vs cash. If you can find a deal which means your TCO is less than you think the depreciation will be, then finance is perfectly appropriate and probably the right financial decision all things considered.

I agree but I didn't say they can't afford it.
I said they can't BUY the shiny Audi.

Not matter which way you look at it you are paying for the depreciation on the car.
That depreciation has always been less, in my experience, by paying cash.

If you're happy paying more in depreciation then lease/ PCP.
I'll take the smarter and more cost effective method every time.

[blueg33]

I feel like a split personality

On the one hand I am loaded because I paid cash for my car and my kids cars
On the other hand I am poor because my wife's car is on PCP


The reality, is that I am poor because I have 2 x parasites at Uni and its nothing to do with cars

[bqf]

I have about £200k worth of cars, and not one of them are financed. Also, my daily driver is a 2008 Volvo I bought for £2750.

The reason I am pointing this out is that from the above statements, you know absolutely nothing about me whatsoever.

Similarly, If I had £100k worth of cars, financed everything and drove a Lamborghini every day, you still wouldn't know anything about me either.

Who gives a sh8t how you pay for things?

[Durzel]

Red 4 said:

Durzel said:

Red 4 said:

I read somewhere that The Average Joe is worth £150k and has £4k in the bank.

That means they can't afford to buy that shiny Audi no matter how much they want it.

And yet these cars keep being sold, and people in PCP cycles make their payments and manage to avoid defaulting, for the most part.

That says to me that they can afford it. Hardly anyone can afford to be made redundant, but things like mortgages that these people also can't afford to keep up for long - using the same "money in the bank" criteria - aren't looked upon in the same sneering way as car finance payments, for some reason.

I keep coming back to the simple calculus with PCP/lease vs cash. If you can find a deal which means your TCO is less than you think the depreciation will be, then finance is perfectly appropriate and probably the right financial decision all things considered.

I agree but I didn't say they can't afford it.
I said they can't BUY the shiny Audi.

Not matter which way you look at it you are paying for the depreciation on the car.
That depreciation has always been less, in my experience, by paying cash.

If you're happy paying more in depreciation then lease/ PCP.
I'll take the smarter and more cost effective method every time.

Again, it does depend on the deal. Some PCP deals seem almost too good to be true.

There was a deal posted earlier in the thread on a Aston Martin Vantage at £1k down and £1k a month for 24 months. The car purchase price was, I believe, circa £140k. There's no way in hell a £140k AMV isn't going to depreciate by at least £25k in the space of 2 years, therefore that deal - if its as described - is amazing. You would be mad to buy the car for cash if could avail youself of that deal, even if you had the cash to buy it outright. You'd lose money for sure doing so.

Sometimes there are PCP deals that involve run out models, or cars that haven't been properly gauged yet in terms of depreciation. On a regular PCP deal on a fairly normal car I'd agree that you will likely pay more in the long run. Equally running a car for more than 2-3 years will probably see the depreciation vs finance TCO level off and go in the opposite direction.

In many instances there is a cost to paying for a car with PCP above and beyond what you lose per month in depreciation, but with interest rates being so low that difference is not as stark as some would believe it is. There could be a mere couple of thousand or so in it.

[blueg33]

bqf said:

Who gives a sh8t how you pay for things?

Cash buyers it seems - or at least those with manhood issues

[TonyTony]

I paid 10%+ finance off with a 3.3% loan and then swapped car and extended the loan, can I still not afford it?

[Red 4]

Durzel said:

Red 4 said:

Durzel said:

Red 4 said:

I read somewhere that The Average Joe is worth £150k and has £4k in the bank.

That means they can't afford to buy that shiny Audi no matter how much they want it.

And yet these cars keep being sold, and people in PCP cycles make their payments and manage to avoid defaulting, for the most part.

That says to me that they can afford it. Hardly anyone can afford to be made redundant, but things like mortgages that these people also can't afford to keep up for long - using the same "money in the bank" criteria - aren't looked upon in the same sneering way as car finance payments, for some reason.

I keep coming back to the simple calculus with PCP/lease vs cash. If you can find a deal which means your TCO is less than you think the depreciation will be, then finance is perfectly appropriate and probably the right financial decision all things considered.

I agree but I didn't say they can't afford it.
I said they can't BUY the shiny Audi.

Not matter which way you look at it you are paying for the depreciation on the car.
That depreciation has always been less, in my experience, by paying cash.

If you're happy paying more in depreciation then lease/ PCP.
I'll take the smarter and more cost effective method every time.

Again, it does vary on the deal. Some PCP deals seem to make no sense at all.

There was a deal posted earlier in the thread on a Aston Martin Vantage at £1k down and £1k a month for 24 months. The car purchase price was, I believe, circa £140k. There's no way in hell a £140k AMV isn't going to depreciate by at least £25k in the space of 2 years, therefore that deal - if its as described - is amazing. You would be mad to buy the car for cash if could avail youself of that deal, even if you had the cash to buy it outright. You'd lose money for sure doing so.

Sometimes there are PCP deals that involve run out models, or cars that haven't been properly gauged yet in terms of depreciation. On a regular PCP deal on a fairly normal car I'd agree that you will likely pay more in the long run. Equally running a car for more than 2-3 years will probably see the depreciation vs finance TCO level off and go in the opposite direction.

In many instances there is a cost to paying for a car with PCP above and beyond what you lose per month in depreciation, but with interest rates being so low that difference is not as stark as some would believe it is. There could be a mere couple of thousand or so in it.

My FiL recently chopped in his TT S-Line Quattro for an S3. ( Cash buyer ).

He lost pretty much to the penny what that car would have cost him if he had PCP'd it.

He gets crap deals. If you can't haggle and aren't prepared to travel then I'd say cash and PCP are broadly similar.

I take your point about there being some good deals popping up now and then though.

[Red 4]

Brooking10 said:

bqf said:

Who gives a sh8t how you pay for things?

Red 4

R Sole

John and Bob the fantasy garage Chuckle brothers.

Incorrect. I only care how I pay for things.

If some random bloke on the internet wants to have his pants pulled down I couldn't care less.

It's bizarre why you think I care.

[Deesee]

PCH should be the weapon of choice for most retail consumers rather than PCP, PCP is better for the salesperson, dealer, manufacturers, hence why it’s pushed, if the dealers had to do a proper factfind, and advise and recommend a product based on suitability PCP would be at the lower end.

Personally I put 50% down then HP the balance for 24/30 months, if it’s 10k or 100k regardless, it’s just how I feel comfortable, gives me a level of protection on top of my consumer rights.

[Deep Thought]

R.Sole said:

Going by that theory the people on here with PCP/lease that say they have the purchase price but choose to invest it in their pension or others investments are telling porky pies?

True.

However i think whilst many people on this thread were saying other things that could be done with cash - which is the case lets be honest, there was maybe only one who said thats what they'd done with a lump sum amount.

I've no reason to doubt that particular person.

[anonymous-user]

Red 4 said:

Incorrect. I only care how I pay for things.

If some random bloke on the internet wants to have his pants pulled down I couldn't care less.

It's bizarre why you think I care.

I deleted my reply because ultimately I thought better of it. Idiots are idiots and always will be.

These threads are always so tiresome, circular and broadly one sided.

This one hasn’t disappointed

We don’t know each other from a hole in the ground but from what I observe of your posting in the main I wouldn’t actually lump you in with the regular loons but I am bewildered by your repeated desire on this thread to demean and laugh at people who don’t/can’t take the same path as you do when it comes to car ownership.

[Deep Thought]

Red 4 said:

I don't care how other people spend their money.

You seem to. Because you keep telling them they're "wrong".

Red 4 said:

I just find it highly amusing when people try to justify their debt.

Moreoften because it suits them, they've got a monthly payment they're happy with for a car they're happy with.

And then you tell them they're "wrong"

If they want to PCP a new car and can afford it and may pay it off and keep it so what? If they decide to use it like a rental, so what?

Red 4 said:

Sometimes it can make sense but in the majority of cases it says they have negligible assets and not much cash.

If they're treating it as a utility just to get them from A -> B. What does it matter? Cheaper than getting a taxi everywhere or trying to find a bus i'd have thought.

Red 4 said:

I read somewhere that The Average Joe is worth £150k and has £4k in the bank.

That means they can't afford to buy that shiny Audi no matter how much they want it.

Ah that old chestnut - a lot of people dont have much savings. A lot of people PCP new cars. Therefore everyone who PCPs a new car doesnt have much savings and cant afford it.

[Red 4]

Brooking10 said:

Red 4 said:

Incorrect. I only care how I pay for things.

If some random bloke on the internet wants to have his pants pulled down I couldn't care less.

It's bizarre why you think I care.

I deleted my reply because ultimately I thought better of it.

These threads are always so tiresome, circular and broadly one sided.

This one hasn’t disappointed

We don’t know each other from a hole in the ground but from what I observe of your posting in the main I wouldn’t actually lump you in with the regular loons but I am bewildered by your repeated desire on this thread to demean and laugh at people who don’t/can’t take the same path as you do when it comes to car ownership.

Well, in view of your latest post, I definitely lump you in with the regular loons.

That's twice (in consecutive posts) that you have accused me of doing/ saying things that I never have.

If I've taken the piss out of some people then that is because they deserve it but it has nothing to do with how they buy/ borrow/ lease/ PCP their cars.

PCP suits some. I have never said otherwise.

ETA - Likewise Deep Thought.

Try to understand what I have written rather than looking for an argument.

Edited by Red 4 on Monday 10th February 15:09

[Deep Thought]

Deesee said:

PCH should be the weapon of choice for most retail consumers rather than PCP, PCP is better for the salesperson, dealer, manufacturers, hence why it’s pushed, if the dealers had to do a proper factfind, and advise and recommend a product based on suitability PCP would be at the lower end.

Personally I put 50% down then HP the balance for 24/30 months, if it’s 10k or 100k regardless, it’s just how I feel comfortable, gives me a level of protection on top of my consumer rights.

Agreed.

I think that day is coming.

Its definitely more prevalent than it used to be.

[anonymous-user]

Red 4 said:

Well, in view of your latest post, I definitely lump you in with the regular loons.

That's twice (in consecutive posts) that you have accused me of doing/ saying things that I never have.

If I've taken the piss out of some people then that is because they deserve it but it has nothing to do with how they buy/ borrow/ lease/ PCP their cars.

PCP suits some. I have never said otherwise.

As I read it you’ve been pretty clear about what you think about the average PCPer right down to “being amused at how they justify their debt”.

That to me is a strange thing to admit to.

[roadsmash]

Red 4, are you going to be a man and apologise for calling me (and indirectly several others) “stoopid” for correcting you on all of your mistakes relating to the differences been PCP and leasing?

If you can’t/won’t apologise, will you at least admit you know very little on the subject and what you are spouting is mere opinion, rather than fact?

If you won’t admit that, will you do us all a favour and keep your “facts” to yourself?

It takes a real man to admit he was in the wrong.