Thursday 13th June 2019

VW virtually admits it is targeting FoS record

Romain Dumas and the all-conquering ID.R already have the EV hill record. 'Sprint' version will go quicker still

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Last time the ID.R appeared at Goodwood, it was just three weeks after it had claimed the Pikes Peak record. The team literally shipped the car, and then had Romain Dumas drive it up the hill in the same configuration it turned up in. That was good enough for 43.86 seconds - the fastest time for 15 years, and a record for EVs.

Now though, fresh from its success at the Nurburgring, the team has had longer to think about the tricky little hill at Festival of Speed. This time, they're coming prepared. Just as the ID.R was retuned for the Nordschleife so it has been revised for the much shorter challenge of Goodwood.

"We have developed another evolutionary stage of the ID.R - a sprint version with smaller batteries, in order to further reduce weight," says François-Xavier Demaison, Technical Director at Volkswagen Motorsport. "We have also opted for a far more aggressive energy management strategy for the short distance. You need very high output for a very short time for the sprint in Goodwood."

Why go the time and expense of doing that? Well, because the car only needs to go two and a bit seconds quicker for it to eclipse the 41.6 seconds recorded by Nick Heidfeld in a McLaren MP4/13 - the current hillclimb record holder. That time was set in 1999, and thanks to a ban on official timed runs for Formula 1 cars, it has never been likely to fall (Porsche having declined an attempt with the 919 Evo).

Now, with Volkswagen deeming Festival of Speed, "the perfect stage on which to demonstrate the performance of Volkswagen's electric technology," you can bet your bottom dollar that it has its eyes set on much more than simply bettering its own EV record...

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[Some Gump]

Not suorised Porsche declined with the 919 - if mum y understanding of how it made it's laptime is correct, it would have struggled anyway (the tricky active aero benefiting at mid / high speed).

It'll be some ask, but I reckon the ID.R has a damn good chance of getting there...

[Redline88]

That sound though

[Sway]

Considering the difference in crowds since 99, and the "not huge" changes to crowd protection at FoS, is this really sensible?

The guys like Justin Law going for FTD always seem to have a little in reserve, and doing it mainly for fun. Going for an outright record is a rather different ballgame.

I suppose I'm moderately surprised they're (Goodwood) considering it. The consequences of it going wrong are rather large.

[Markytee]

I was fortunate enough to be there when Nick Heidfeld did the record time, it was mightily impressive! I kind of hope it doesn’t get beaten, but I suspect it will....

[poppopbangbang]

Markytee said:

I was fortunate enough to be there when Nick Heidfeld did the record time, it was mightily impressive! I kind of hope it doesn’t get beaten, but I suspect it will....

I'm half tempted to build a "Goodwood" gearbox for the Minardi, turn it up to 17K and see how close a hot shoe can get to McLarens time in it.... it's 20 years on in tyre development and I have access to Pirellis

[Nerdherder]

poppopbangbang said:

Markytee said:

I was fortunate enough to be there when Nick Heidfeld did the record time, it was mightily impressive! I kind of hope it doesn’t get beaten, but I suspect it will....

I'm half tempted to build a "Goodwood" gearbox for the Minardi, turn it up to 17K and see how close a hot shoe can get to McLarens time in it.... it's 20 years on in tyre development and I have access to Pirellis

Yehhhh go for it please

[redroadster]

[quote=Sway]Considering the difference in crowds since 99, and the "not huge" changes to crowd protection at FoS, is this really sensible?

The guys like Justin Law going for FTD always seem to have a little in reserve, and doing it mainly for fun. Going for an outright record is a rather different ballgame.

The festival has a rather better record than the TT where someone dies every year and it puts no one of going to watch or participate ,it's on your ticket it's dangerous no claims for injury .

[Sway]

redroadster said:

The festival has a rather better record than the TT where someone dies every year and it puts no one of going to watch or participate ,it's on your ticket it's dangerous no claims for injury .

I get that. From my understanding (never been to the TT, but live a few minutes from Goodwood) the nature of the crowd is different. At a couple of spots, the crowd at FoS is 30 deep.

It's not so much the crowd perception, or litigation from injured parties. More the potential reputational damage.

[Augustus Windsock]

redroadster said:

Sway said:

Considering the difference in crowds since 99, and the "not huge" changes to crowd protection at FoS, is this really sensible?

The guys like Justin Law going for FTD always seem to have a little in reserve, and doing it mainly for fun. Going for an outright record is a rather different ballgame.

The festival has a rather better record than the TT where someone dies every year and it puts no one of going to watch or participate ,it's on your ticket it's dangerous no claims for injury .

Exactly.
Spectators must have an idea of the risks involved.
After all, if they feel that the thrill-to-risk ratio isn’t favourable then they could always go and watch crown green bowling or the local OAP crochet group...
I wonder how long it will be until the tree-hugging muesli-treading enviro-mentalists bring about a ban on events like the FOS; dip your bread while you still can...

[Sandpit Steve]

poppopbangbang said:

Markytee said:

I was fortunate enough to be there when Nick Heidfeld did the record time, it was mightily impressive! I kind of hope it doesn’t get beaten, but I suspect it will....

I'm half tempted to build a "Goodwood" gearbox for the Minardi, turn it up to 17K and see how close a hot shoe can get to McLarens time in it.... it's 20 years on in tyre development and I have access to Pirellis

Do it! Records are meant to be broken, especially the old ones.

Good luck to anyone who makes a serious attempt at Heidfeld’s mark

I know it’s not going to happen, but I’d love to see the contemporary F1 cars get driven in anger up the hill.

[ukaskew]

I thought the outright record was essentially off limits due to the safety aspect of the hill at Goodwood? Why ban F1 cars from officially going for the record when other potentially quicker cars can?

FoS does feel like a huge, huge accident waiting to happen, unfortunately. I think being in the forest watching rallying is one thing, the dedication required to be there implies spectators are at least aware of the risk and are generally alert to it. Not so at FoS, where you're at eye level seperated by a few bails and at any one time the people around you can be looking the other way, enjoying a beer etc in what they'll assume is complete safety.

Even a near miss could fundamentally change how FoS has to operate, and I struggle to see how they can practically make it much safer other than to neutralise the vehicles as much as possible.

Edited by ukaskew on Thursday 13th June 22:06

[Fetchez la vache]

ukaskew said:

I thought the outright record was essentially off limits due to the safety aspect of the hill at Goodwood? Why ban F1 cars from officially going for the record when other potentially quicker cars can?

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on this.

The only answer I can think of is "because ticket revenue".
I imagine ticket sales will be higher than usual (no idea if there's a cap tbh) due to knowing a car that keeps breaking other records is going to try to break that record...

[Sway]

Fetchez la vache said:

ukaskew said:

I thought the outright record was essentially off limits due to the safety aspect of the hill at Goodwood? Why ban F1 cars from officially going for the record when other potentially quicker cars can?

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on this.

The only answer I can think of is "because ticket revenue".
I imagine ticket sales will be higher than usual (no idea if there's a cap tbh) due to knowing a car that keeps breaking other records is going to try to break that record...

Not sure it made a difference when Loeb came and was talking record in the Pikes Peak car.

FoS has never struggled for ticket sales, I'm pretty sure it bounces around the hard limit every year for the last decade.

[Dr G]

poppopbangbang said:

I'm half tempted to build a "Goodwood" gearbox for the Minardi, turn it up to 17K and see how close a hot shoe can get to McLarens time in it.... it's 20 years on in tyre development and I have access to Pirellis

I think it would be a 'one shot' sort of a deal before Lord March got grumpy but what an awesome way to upset the apple cart

[RobM77]

redroadster]way said:

The festival has a rather better record than the TT where someone dies every year and it puts no one of going to watch or participate ,it's on your ticket it's dangerous no claims for injury .

A car going into the crowd is a very different thing to a bike.. Look at the infamous Le Mans accident...

[peterg1955]

Graeme Wight Jr (as reigning British Hillclimb Champion) was invited to drive his hillclimb car at the FoS back in 2002 and was the fastest thing off the line when I watched all the big class cars that year and he still holds the second fastest time up the hill at just over a second behind Nick Heidfield, for whatever reason, Goodwood have not invited any subsequent British hillclimb champions to the event, maybe because they could outperform the 'headline' F1 cars...

[Prizam]

ukaskew said:

I thought the outright record was essentially off limits due to the safety aspect of the hill at Goodwood? Why ban F1 cars from officially going for the record when other potentially quicker cars can?

FoS does feel like a huge, huge accident waiting to happen, unfortunately. I think being in the forest watching rallying is one thing, the dedication required to be there implies spectators are at least aware of the risk and are generally alert to it. Not so at FoS, where you're at eye level seperated by a few bails and at any one time the people around you can be looking the other way, enjoying a beer etc in what they'll assume is complete safety.

Even a near miss could fundamentally change how FoS has to operate, and I struggle to see how they can practically make it much safer other than to neutralise the vehicles as much as possible.

Edited by ukaskew on Thursday 13th June 22:06

Yes, exactly this. the record won't be broken when the crowds are there. I know a guy, and a car that would smash this record. Any day without breaking a sweat. In fact, many of today's top hill climbing cars would break the record without trying very hard.

[Mafffew]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDsAQ2Q4fm0

He got onto the grass last year....

There is no easy answer, everyone wants to see the records be broken and enjoy a spectacle. But nobody wants to see a spectator die just so a manufacturer/driver can claim a record. Increased safety measures could mean less accessibility and worse viewing, so that is always tricky to get right.

[Shewie]

Markytee said:

I was fortunate enough to be there when Nick Heidfeld did the record time, it was mightily impressive! I kind of hope it doesn’t get beaten, but I suspect it will....

I totally agree. I was there too. The commitment and speed was frankly terrifying. I'm pretty sure given 20 years of development that the record is there for the taking, but that record run by Heidfeld will live long in the memory...

[boyse7en]

Prizam said:

Yes, exactly this. the record won't be broken when the crowds are there. I know a guy, and a car that would smash this record. Any day without breaking a sweat. In fact, many of today's top hill climbing cars would break the record without trying very hard.

So are you saying the FoS is preventing him running his potentially record-breaking car? I thought the F1 car ban was the only one in operation.