RE: Manhart liberates 450hp from Golf R
Wednesday 25th March 2020
Manhart liberates 450hp from Golf R
The Golf R is already a quick car, so how about one with 50 per cent more power?
The 450hp Mk7 Golf R is not a new prospect, what with Revo having got there a few years back, producing a fairly staggering Volkswagen hatchback. Today's news of Manhart replicating the feat is perhaps more notable for the fact that the Wuppertal-based tuner is best known for BMWs. Clearly the appetite for even faster Golf Rs is showing no sign of abating.
Much like the Revo car, Manhart's enormous power gains mostly come from fitting the EA888 2.0-litre - an engine proving itself very useful to tuners - with a chunkier turbo. The Manhart RS450 then gets to its headline figure with a new intake (including a carbon airbox), an ECU remap and exhaust tinkering. Interestingly, too, torque is very close to the Revo car, this Manhart making 369lb ft against 376.
Manhart will make 10 of these RS450 specials, presumably all to this spec: H&R lowering springs, new wheels, the stripes and so on. All very good for 10 German customers. However, if this news has reawakened a desire for a 450hp Golf in the UK, early Mk7 Rs are now half their new price. Add the Revo goodies for a few thousand more, and there's the potential for A45-baiting performance for something like 50 per cent of the cost. Intriguing, no?
Discussion
I really would like to drive a tweaked Golf R. I found the standard car just a little bit on the safe side. While it had mountains of performance, it didn't have much drama to go with it. A bit more noise and focus would have made it a much more exciting car. A couple of tweaks might have made it much more to my liking.
I'd like a go too! I had a rare MK6 Golf R with 'Stage 2' APR modifications (map and uprated fuel pump) with one of the silencers removed. When you were 'on it' it made some fun turbo noises and it was blisteringly quick - good enough from a standstill to keep my dad's 997.1 Turbo honest. That was with 360bhp, 450bhp must feel like a rocket ship!
The only issue is, working in the trade, I see A LOT of these cheap PCPs coming through now after 3/4 year leases - they are mainly bog standard spec. A current GTI feels like an S Class inside compared to an R.
The only issue is, working in the trade, I see A LOT of these cheap PCPs coming through now after 3/4 year leases - they are mainly bog standard spec. A current GTI feels like an S Class inside compared to an R.
Its a nice thing but as you've suggested id rather buy my own and do it, you can get a coolant pipe that re-routes under the intake, rather than sit on top like the picture as well.
I had fully intended to take my estate to that sort of level but even with the base Mountune software on the engine and gearbox its plenty quick enough and too easy to get into license loosing territory as is!
I had fully intended to take my estate to that sort of level but even with the base Mountune software on the engine and gearbox its plenty quick enough and too easy to get into license loosing territory as is!
Jon_S_Rally said:
I really would like to drive a tweaked Golf R. I found the standard car just a little bit on the safe side. While it had mountains of performance, it didn't have much drama to go with it. A bit more noise and focus would have made it a much more exciting car. A couple of tweaks might have made it much more to my liking.
I agree with this. A very, very hard car to fault or criticise in any factual or tangible way, but there was just something that stopped me from going ahead. I would be very keen to try a couple of modified ones out (and by modified, I mean not just remapped to daft bhp).Around a couple of weeks ago I was following a blue R near the edge of the Peak District where I live.
It had a Revo badge on the boot iirc and a lovely Pistonheads-like smiley with middle fingers erect and a ‘f
k you, Greta!’ line underneath.
Best of both worlds.
Took off like a scolded car as soon as we left the 30mph limit and didn’t see it again despite me giving, as Deadpool would say, “Maximum effort!”
Despite what various naysayers post, I’d love one although I’m the sort of weirdo that would stick a TDi badge on the boot and try to find a less obvious exhaust...
It had a Revo badge on the boot iirc and a lovely Pistonheads-like smiley with middle fingers erect and a ‘f
k you, Greta!’ line underneath.Best of both worlds.
Took off like a scolded car as soon as we left the 30mph limit and didn’t see it again despite me giving, as Deadpool would say, “Maximum effort!”
Despite what various naysayers post, I’d love one although I’m the sort of weirdo that would stick a TDi badge on the boot and try to find a less obvious exhaust...
thelostboy said:
I'd like a go too! I had a rare MK6 Golf R with 'Stage 2' APR modifications (map and uprated fuel pump) with one of the silencers removed. When you were 'on it' it made some fun turbo noises and it was blisteringly quick - good enough from a standstill to keep my dad's 997.1 Turbo honest. That was with 360bhp, 450bhp must feel like a rocket ship!
The only issue is, working in the trade, I see A LOT of these cheap PCPs coming through now after 3/4 year leases - they are mainly bog standard spec. A current GTI feels like an S Class inside compared to an R.
I do rather like the 6R. I occasionally see a 3dr one in the nice metallic blue colour near work. It's a handsome looking thing, and I always preferred the dual exhausts to the four on the MK7, thought it was a bit more unique.The only issue is, working in the trade, I see A LOT of these cheap PCPs coming through now after 3/4 year leases - they are mainly bog standard spec. A current GTI feels like an S Class inside compared to an R.
Limpet said:
I agree with this. A very, very hard car to fault or criticise in any factual or tangible way, but there was just something that stopped me from going ahead. I would be very keen to try a couple of modified ones out (and by modified, I mean not just remapped to daft bhp).
That's just it. Had mine a year and it was fantastic. I can see why so many people have them but, for me, it just lacked that last couple of % to make it feel special. Like you say, it doesn't actually need loads more power. I just felt it needed a bit more of a voice, and a slightly harder edge. Obviously that would have made it less of an all-rounder, but it would have made it more appealing to me. A tweak to the exhaust/intake for a touch more noise and a slightly more focused feel to the suspension/steering is probably all it would take to turn it into a really fun car.Olivera said:
Still st boring.
Oh, Manhart have let you try it have they?t boring.Jon_S_Rally said:
Oh, Manhart have let you try it have they?
Back in the 80s, there was a variant of this argument vis a vis 1.6 Pug 205s v 1.8 Mk II Gtis (and similar for 1.9 205s and 16V Golfs) - the recurrent theme was that the Golf was 'boring' and the 205 was tremendously exciting. Then, as now, the answer is quite simple - VWs old and new tend to be more stable at everyday speeds than their competitors. To a normal driver, they can therefore appear a little bit inert in normal use.
The revelation came later, on late-night back roads as you attempted to re-write the laws of physics with a VW. What was stable at 60 was rather more fun at 120+ (allegedly). They "flow" at higher speeds. Yer 205s of that period, despite being more exciting at lower speeds, simply spun out or scared the HP out of you at comparable velocities on similar roads, and their hot-shoe owners had to back off. And you could go into the red zone repeatedly in a VW while being an average driver. I proved this to my youthful rivals by swapping cars and testing each other on the same road. I was consistently far faster in the VW; and so was my mate, the 205 owner (to his annoyance); despite there not being much between our cars in terms of on-paper performance. Doubtless, a really skilled driver could have made up the difference in the 205. However, I'm merely an enthusiastic driver; I'm not especially skilled - and neither are most people in the real world.
I'm sorry, if you find hot-hatch VWs "boring", I'm afraid you're simply not driving fast enough.
tommy1973s said:
Back in the 80s, there was a variant of this argument vis a vis 1.6 Pug 205s v 1.8 Mk II Gtis (and similar for 1.9 205s and 16V Golfs) - the recurrent theme was that the Golf was 'boring' and the 205 was tremendously exciting.
Then, as now, the answer is quite simple - VWs old and new tend to be more stable at everyday speeds than their competitors. To a normal driver, they can therefore appear a little bit inert in normal use.
The revelation came later, on late-night back roads as you attempted to re-write the laws of physics with a VW. What was stable at 60 was rather more fun at 120+ (allegedly). They "flow" at higher speeds. Yer 205s of that period, despite being more exciting at lower speeds, simply spun out or scared the HP out of you at comparable velocities on similar roads, and their hot-shoe owners had to back off. And you could go into the red zone repeatedly in a VW while being an average driver. I proved this to my youthful rivals by swapping cars and testing each other on the same road. I was consistently far faster in the VW; and so was my mate, the 205 owner (to his annoyance); despite there not being much between our cars in terms of on-paper performance. Doubtless, a really skilled driver could have made up the difference in the 205. However, I'm merely an enthusiastic driver; I'm not especially skilled - and neither are most people in the real world.
I'm sorry, if you find hot-hatch VWs "boring", I'm afraid you're simply not driving fast enough.
The problem now is that the limits of these cars are so monumentally high that you have to be going way too fast to have fun. Not ideal on modern, congested roads in reality. A great car feels special at any speed. A truly great one feels special when you just look at, or sit in it. I like the Golf R, it's a very good car as I said but, for me, it was just missing those final few bits that made it great. As I said, it would be interesting to try one like this and see if that makes the difference.Then, as now, the answer is quite simple - VWs old and new tend to be more stable at everyday speeds than their competitors. To a normal driver, they can therefore appear a little bit inert in normal use.
The revelation came later, on late-night back roads as you attempted to re-write the laws of physics with a VW. What was stable at 60 was rather more fun at 120+ (allegedly). They "flow" at higher speeds. Yer 205s of that period, despite being more exciting at lower speeds, simply spun out or scared the HP out of you at comparable velocities on similar roads, and their hot-shoe owners had to back off. And you could go into the red zone repeatedly in a VW while being an average driver. I proved this to my youthful rivals by swapping cars and testing each other on the same road. I was consistently far faster in the VW; and so was my mate, the 205 owner (to his annoyance); despite there not being much between our cars in terms of on-paper performance. Doubtless, a really skilled driver could have made up the difference in the 205. However, I'm merely an enthusiastic driver; I'm not especially skilled - and neither are most people in the real world.
I'm sorry, if you find hot-hatch VWs "boring", I'm afraid you're simply not driving fast enough.
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