Crash

Crash

Author
Discussion

PetrolTed

Original Poster:

34,329 posts

273 months

bennno

7,497 posts

239 months

Saturday 30th March 2002
quotequote all
"The TVR went out of control on its own and it was spinning up the road and hit an oncoming car, a Peugeot 306."

More likely the nob on the end of the accelerator or the nut on the wheel were responsible for this one.

Almost did similar in my first cerb, about 10 mins after leaving the dealer!

Bennno

loknlode

15 posts

243 months

Saturday 30th March 2002
quotequote all
"Traffic Constable Ian Crozier of Harrogate Police said: "The TVR went out of control on its own and it was spinning up the road and hit an oncoming car, a Peugeot 306."

A brash statement from a policeman prior to a full investigation, I fear. It is very rare for a car to go "out of control on it's own"

10 minutes acclimatisation in a vehicle of this calibre is just not enough.

My thoughts go out to the family at this time.

lnl.

PetrolTed

Original Poster:

34,329 posts

273 months

Saturday 30th March 2002
quotequote all
Very sad. Tuscans are very powerful and relatively light. It's very easy to break traction even in a straight line. What can you do to warn people trying them for the first time?

Ford Prefect

159 posts

239 months

Monday 1st April 2002
quotequote all
Very sad indeed and my thoughts go out to the couple and their children. I think perhaps the dealers need to temper their desire to impress test drivers of TVRs with more time spent sitting in the passenger seat with the test driver.

In my own case I was given a five minute run out and "watch the power in first and second" and away I went for my test drive in a 285 BHP motor having arrived in a 1.4 VW Golf!!!

Ford Prefect

159 posts

239 months

Monday 1st April 2002
quotequote all
As an addition to my previous posting, I am not suggesting that this was the situation in this very sad case as I don't know the facts but rather as a general observation based on my own experience of a TVR test drive.

Englishman in LA

291 posts

243 months

Tuesday 2nd April 2002
quotequote all
My home town. I know the roundabout and road in question... a relatively straight single lane A road, which tends to be incredibly greasy this time of year...

Charlie Kemp (chipp on here) is Nigel Kemps son

gazzab

19,157 posts

252 months

Tuesday 2nd April 2002
quotequote all
My first TVR drive was on my own via a dealer. He threw me the keys to a chimp 400 and off I went. The fastest car I had previously driven regularly was a hot hatch. Had a 20 second overview of the car and away I went. Not very responsible of them or me.

fish

3,903 posts

252 months

Tuesday 2nd April 2002
quotequote all
I would just like to comment that having experienced Harrogate Horseless Nigel was more than responsible in that I was at the time allowed out only with him in the passenger seat.

As I understand the individual concerned in the above accident had previous experience of fast cars and as such should have been okay.

I just hope all concerned make a rapid recovery.

pbrettle

3,280 posts

253 months

Tuesday 2nd April 2002
quotequote all
Must admit that previous test drives of TVRs have always had some stern words about power, control and what I have to pay for should I prang it...

Almost enough to put you off driving it, but it certainly did make you consider the driving style... I would have though that this should be done for all test drives, even if you have "fast car" experience.

However, thoughts go out to the family and hope everyone is OK - hate to see the insurance claim though - how many cars involved?

Cheers,

Paul

Ford Prefect

159 posts

239 months

Tuesday 2nd April 2002
quotequote all
Again, not prejudging the reasons for this accident, but perhaps it would be a good idea for dealers to have a video to show to test drivers before they take the car out that shows just how powerful these cars are and what happens if you floor the accelerator, etc. The video could contain a lot more about driving a TVR for the first time and the implications of not having ABS, traction control and all the other gismos that people seem to take for granted on modern cars. We all think we are great drivers and a TVR can come as a bit of a surprise....I am sure most of us still need the odd emergency change of underwear when out in a TVR!!

domster

8,428 posts

240 months

Tuesday 2nd April 2002
quotequote all
At the end of the day, there are fast cars and there are fast cars. My 944 Turbo with sports suspension handled well in the dry but was lethal in the wet. It would oversteer on heavy steering inputs or a trailing throttle around tight-ish corners, and invariably it ended up in a tree (wet leaves, night time, me driving like a tosser on roads I knew). My Lotus Carlton on the other hand has soft enough suspension to be a bit of a pussycat, and although I've had the tail out in the wet and dry, I have driven it in fresh snow with a careful right foot and dry palms.

A Tuscan without traction control and with two wheel drive is likely to be a beast compared to a Porsche 996 Turbo with 4WD and all sorts of gizmos. I'd trust a guy in a Mk2 Escort on crossplies more with a Tuscan than someone with a new M5.

Anyway, hope the test drive people are OK, and the story is sombre food for thought - especially about the rear of the Tuscan having been missing in action. I'm not saying PW is flippant about safety, but TiVs aren't famous for their air bags and intrusion bars.

johno

8,179 posts

252 months

Tuesday 2nd April 2002
quotequote all
quote:

"Traffic Constable Ian Crozier of Harrogate Police said: "The TVR went out of control on its own and it was spinning up the road and hit an oncoming car, a Peugeot 306."

A brash statement from a policeman prior to a full investigation, I fear. It is very rare for a car to go "out of control on it's own"

10 minutes acclimatisation in a vehicle of this calibre is just not enough.

My thoughts go out to the family at this time.

lnl.



I think the Policemans statement in this case refers to the fact that the car was not hit by another to cause it to go out of control. He in fact is clarifying that it was either the car or its driver that caused it to spin and not another vehicle.

These guys are extremely good at the job they do and I for one don't think his staement is brash. I think he is merely comfirming that it was the fault of that vehicle and not another that led to this very unfortunate incident.

In terms of precautionary driver education that is down to the individual. If we get to the situation of compulsory advanced driving lessons then they may aswell slap a great big "This vehicle could seriously Damage Your Health" sticker on the side of every car capable of doing more than 30mph.

Awareness does need to be increased and this must rest with the dealers to make it an easier decision for individuals to select a course or similar. One days expert tuition (I am told) is worth a fortune in terms of improved awareness of the behaviour of these kin of vehicles.

I believe some dealers already have arrangements with tutors. Maybe a factory sponsored scheme would be the way to go.

All of this is extremely bad publicity for the Marque and further reinforces tree hugging attitudes towards modern transport.

Rant over, only have the occsional one !!

Cheers

Mark

andyvdg

1,527 posts

253 months

Tuesday 2nd April 2002
quotequote all
quote:

Anyway, hope the test drive people are OK, and the story is sombre food for thought - especially about the rear of the Tuscan having been missing in action. I'm not saying PW is flippant about safety, but TiVs aren't famous for their air bags and intrusion bars.



I hope these people are OK too. The rear of the car (boot) is just composite so it would come away (and dispense with some energy). The important question is how protected the passenger cell was. The doors do have intrusion bars.

Isn't NCAP finally testing sports cars - will TVR be amongst the ones they test ?

btw I don't think NCAP currently test rear end shunts, do they ?

richb

45,834 posts

254 months

Tuesday 2nd April 2002
quotequote all
quote:
...then they may aswell slap a great big "This vehicle could seriously Damage Your Health" sticker on the side of every car capable of doing more than 30mph
I seem to remember Clarkson doing a piece on TG about the Dodge Viper, a red one. He sat there and said there is this sticker on the door shut face that you see as you climb in saying words to the effect of "Warning this is a seriously fast piece of kit, please drive carefully!" - "ummm" went Clarkson, "Won't" he said, as he blasted off in a cloud of black smoke!

domster

8,428 posts

240 months

Thursday 4th April 2002
quotequote all
"The doors do have intrusion bars."

Sorry - was thinking of early Griffs, which didn't. I know some poor sod got killed when a Fiesta crushed him against the transmission tunnel when the door offered no protection.

redone

81 posts

253 months

Thursday 4th April 2002
quotequote all
yeah but have you seen them... They'd struggle to stop a proper shopping trolley never mind one with an engine.!

fish

3,903 posts

252 months

Thursday 4th April 2002
quotequote all
The structure of the car is very solid particularily the passenger compartment. I understand the test Tuscan in the tests survived very well and the one car was used for all the tests.

Although not fully aware of the exact circumatances of the above I understand the car first hit a bridge parapet backwards then spun into the oncoming car again backwards. The car thus took two highspeed rear end crashes thus there would be limited crumple zone for the secound impact.

I have seen a Tuscan in the flesh after a high speed backwards exit off a corner into a pole/tree. The car was suposedly doing around 100mph when the problems started. The pole crumpled the rear and chasis right upto the back of the space behind the seats and I beleive entered this by about8 odd inches. The car body then sprung back out and apart from the shattered fibreglass didn't look that bad. In side the boot the fuel tank was folded into a neat V shape though. The car was written off and the driver walked away with minor injuries I understand.

cockers

609 posts

251 months

Thursday 4th April 2002
quotequote all
quote:

perhaps it would be a good idea for dealers to have a video to show to test drivers before they take the car out that shows just how powerful these cars are and what happens if you floor the accelerator, etc.



Don't agree. All you need is a common sense, coupled with a healthy dose of respect and even a bit of apprehension.

You can't mitigate against people's stupidity, so if, having been given the usual warning by the dealer, they can't figure out that a TVR needs more respect and a more gentle learning curve than a normal car, f**k 'em.

NB - I am not passing any judgement on the driver of the car shown in this thread, as I, like others, have no idea what actually happened.

JonRB

67,417 posts

242 months

Thursday 4th April 2002
quotequote all
Perhaps, but to some extent dealers do have a "duty of care".

Besides, its in their interests for customers not to bend the demonstrators as
a) Its expensive
b) The customer is unlikely to complete the purchase if dead / critically injured
c) They're without a demonstrator whilst its repaired
d) Its bad publicity.