Citroen Xantia Activa????
Discussion
Kitchski said:
Simps said:
Get a Soarer Active instead.
Similar sort of thing, only with the right numbers of cylinders. That and the fact that it isn't french!
Exibit A of why Activas are so cheap Similar sort of thing, only with the right numbers of cylinders. That and the fact that it isn't french!
Keep it up please, majority!Although it's only similar in that it doesn't lean much, the ride control is still springs isn't it?
Edited by Kitchski on Wednesday 3rd November 21:21
The fully active, not the TEMS models, use no springs or roll bars. They only made 873 of them, all for Japan though.
Simps said:
Get a Soarer Active instead.
Similar sort of thing, only with the right numbers of cylinders. That and the fact that it isn't french!
Curious. Do they have the same anti roll capabity or is their active system more akin to a regular Xantia rather than the Activa model?Similar sort of thing, only with the right numbers of cylinders. That and the fact that it isn't french!
Cheers.
300bhp/ton said:
Simps said:
Get a Soarer Active instead.
Similar sort of thing, only with the right numbers of cylinders. That and the fact that it isn't french!
Curious. Do they have the same anti roll capabity or is their active system more akin to a regular Xantia rather than the Activa model?Similar sort of thing, only with the right numbers of cylinders. That and the fact that it isn't french!
Cheers.
BlueMR2 said:
300bhp/ton said:
Simps said:
Get a Soarer Active instead.
Similar sort of thing, only with the right numbers of cylinders. That and the fact that it isn't french!
Curious. Do they have the same anti roll capabity or is their active system more akin to a regular Xantia rather than the Activa model?Similar sort of thing, only with the right numbers of cylinders. That and the fact that it isn't french!
Cheers.
Thanks.
Seems there were a couple of us ex-Activa owners out there!
I had one a company motor for 2 years and 60k miles. I had a few issues with oil leaks, but these got sorted out. I had previously had a normal Xantia before this and was accustomed to the filling / checking process for the suspension!
As commented, it had a 150BHP 2.0 turbo engine which was swift, but not fast. With the suspension in sport mode, it would not lean and still soaked up the bumps well. It scared a few cars following me with its ability to corner and deal with swift A roads. As a maximum attack, balls out car? Nope - as mentioned above, impressive but not involving. There is a small story about a Volvo 480 following me once and desperate to get past me, even though I wasnt hanging around. Anyway, lets just say that the Activa made the turn with no issues (or lean) and the Volvo didnt and ended up in a field!
Other issues - thirsty, eats tyres (though they all do, sidewalls being the hardest hit!), constant checking of suspension levels to make sure it works OK, harder ride than normal Xantia which was kind of defeating the point, mainly plastic but still squeaked, understeered and uninvolving.
Impressive tech though. Worked well and under 70% driving conditions was fantastic. The equivalent BMW of the day was still better though. Cheap as chips these days... if you find them at all.
I had one a company motor for 2 years and 60k miles. I had a few issues with oil leaks, but these got sorted out. I had previously had a normal Xantia before this and was accustomed to the filling / checking process for the suspension!
As commented, it had a 150BHP 2.0 turbo engine which was swift, but not fast. With the suspension in sport mode, it would not lean and still soaked up the bumps well. It scared a few cars following me with its ability to corner and deal with swift A roads. As a maximum attack, balls out car? Nope - as mentioned above, impressive but not involving. There is a small story about a Volvo 480 following me once and desperate to get past me, even though I wasnt hanging around. Anyway, lets just say that the Activa made the turn with no issues (or lean) and the Volvo didnt and ended up in a field!
Other issues - thirsty, eats tyres (though they all do, sidewalls being the hardest hit!), constant checking of suspension levels to make sure it works OK, harder ride than normal Xantia which was kind of defeating the point, mainly plastic but still squeaked, understeered and uninvolving.
Impressive tech though. Worked well and under 70% driving conditions was fantastic. The equivalent BMW of the day was still better though. Cheap as chips these days... if you find them at all.
A friend of mine has an Xantia Activa and I've driven it a fair bit.
The Activa suspension works very well and the difference between it and a regular Xantia is night and day frankly. Even with the distinctly mediocre tyres that it was fitted with, the speeds you could corner and throw it into roundabouts at was impressive, and for what is (for its age) a fairly big and heavy car, it's surprisingly responsive.
A drivers car however, it is not. The feedback through the steering and, especially, brakes is near non-existant and means that you just have to put faith in the suspension and tyres when pressing on. The 2.0 8v Turbo engine goes well enough, but it's ruinous on fuel for the power output (low 20's mpg average) and it's a shame that the UK didn't get the 3.0 V6 version that was available in mainland Europe - would have been a better option with no worse economy.
The basic engine itself is capable of fairly decent power outputs, with some of the Dutch guys getting over 300hp on standard internals, but the turbo/manifold and engine management needs replacing for that as the standard stuff usually won't even manage 200hp. With a decent amount of power, decent brake pads and some semi-slicks of sorts, I've no doubt that it would be very capable around a track or say the 'Ring... although I'm not sure it would actually be fun given how disconnected you are from the driving experience.
Until the clutch slave cylinder failed on it, he'd have very little trouble with the car in the few years that he'd had it that I know of - a suspension fluid return pipe (cheap) and a couple of minor electrical gremlins is all that I know of. Otherwise, just consumables like tyres, pads, and an exhaust backbox. Far better than most so called "reliable" German cars.
I couldn't put up with the fuel economy (or lack thereof!) to own one, but had it been capable of low-30's to the gallon (or even better, fitted with the HDi 110 engine) I'd have happily run one as a daily driver. Shame the technology wasn't more widely used, as it was unquestionably effective.
The Activa suspension works very well and the difference between it and a regular Xantia is night and day frankly. Even with the distinctly mediocre tyres that it was fitted with, the speeds you could corner and throw it into roundabouts at was impressive, and for what is (for its age) a fairly big and heavy car, it's surprisingly responsive.
A drivers car however, it is not. The feedback through the steering and, especially, brakes is near non-existant and means that you just have to put faith in the suspension and tyres when pressing on. The 2.0 8v Turbo engine goes well enough, but it's ruinous on fuel for the power output (low 20's mpg average) and it's a shame that the UK didn't get the 3.0 V6 version that was available in mainland Europe - would have been a better option with no worse economy.
The basic engine itself is capable of fairly decent power outputs, with some of the Dutch guys getting over 300hp on standard internals, but the turbo/manifold and engine management needs replacing for that as the standard stuff usually won't even manage 200hp. With a decent amount of power, decent brake pads and some semi-slicks of sorts, I've no doubt that it would be very capable around a track or say the 'Ring... although I'm not sure it would actually be fun given how disconnected you are from the driving experience.
Until the clutch slave cylinder failed on it, he'd have very little trouble with the car in the few years that he'd had it that I know of - a suspension fluid return pipe (cheap) and a couple of minor electrical gremlins is all that I know of. Otherwise, just consumables like tyres, pads, and an exhaust backbox. Far better than most so called "reliable" German cars.
I couldn't put up with the fuel economy (or lack thereof!) to own one, but had it been capable of low-30's to the gallon (or even better, fitted with the HDi 110 engine) I'd have happily run one as a daily driver. Shame the technology wasn't more widely used, as it was unquestionably effective.
300bhp/ton said:
BlueMR2 said:
300bhp/ton said:
Simps said:
Get a Soarer Active instead.
Similar sort of thing, only with the right numbers of cylinders. That and the fact that it isn't french!
Curious. Do they have the same anti roll capabity or is their active system more akin to a regular Xantia rather than the Activa model?Similar sort of thing, only with the right numbers of cylinders. That and the fact that it isn't french!
Cheers.
Thanks.
It seems that the Citroen activa system controls left - right lean with active roll bars but can cock a leg in the air so to speak.
The Soarers system keeps the car flat left to right but also forwards and backwards. So the car does not squat under acceleration or dive under braking.
Its a very strange feeling when someone pulls out in front of you and you do an emergency stop and not only does the car not dive, but you can feel it pushing itself up.
The standard brakes, with a pad upgrade were very powerful. It stopped impressively for 2 ton of car, pulling big numbers on the brake tester whilst being MOT'd as well. I imagine the car essentially pushing the wheels to the ground helps as well i the real world.
The Soarers system keeps the car flat left to right but also forwards and backwards. So the car does not squat under acceleration or dive under braking.
Its a very strange feeling when someone pulls out in front of you and you do an emergency stop and not only does the car not dive, but you can feel it pushing itself up.
The standard brakes, with a pad upgrade were very powerful. It stopped impressively for 2 ton of car, pulling big numbers on the brake tester whilst being MOT'd as well. I imagine the car essentially pushing the wheels to the ground helps as well i the real world.
My post in the moose test thread said:
I cant comment on the Citroen setup as i know nothing about it, however i will talk about the car i owned previously.
Your example uses two passive cars with identical spring rates one having some odd anti roll bar that can change its stiffness. This makes me think you still don't understand for a few reasons.
1. A fully active car has no anti roll bars, it doesn't need them, so you can't change them during the drive as there are none to change.
2. Spring rate, sorry but fully active doesn't have any springs either.
You later talk about moving to fully active systems, the ones like i'm talking about, which is why i call it active suspension, like Toyota were producing on their cars 20 years ago.
http://planetsoarer.com/UZZ32/uzz32.html < shows you details from Toyotas work and reasons for using it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHK_2eoBaFU < this is a video of an active soarer followed by a standard coil suspension soarer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2QV_PaUWhs < this one shows he range of motion available doing the diagnostic "dance"
This image shows an active suspension soarer at the same corner as a tems airbag suspension soarer
This shows the angle of a racing 944 against an active soarer
http://planetsoarer.com/UZZ30/UZZ30.htm < this link is a review of a normal coil suspension owners drive of an active suspension model.
I'll pass on driving a RRS unless you want to give it a proper active suspension system thanks. I doubr a bit of extra rollbar stiffness will make it that nice to drive. Maybe 4 wheel steer would help it
.
Bet the Activa doesn't have those dance moves Your example uses two passive cars with identical spring rates one having some odd anti roll bar that can change its stiffness. This makes me think you still don't understand for a few reasons.
1. A fully active car has no anti roll bars, it doesn't need them, so you can't change them during the drive as there are none to change.
2. Spring rate, sorry but fully active doesn't have any springs either.
You later talk about moving to fully active systems, the ones like i'm talking about, which is why i call it active suspension, like Toyota were producing on their cars 20 years ago.
http://planetsoarer.com/UZZ32/uzz32.html < shows you details from Toyotas work and reasons for using it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHK_2eoBaFU < this is a video of an active soarer followed by a standard coil suspension soarer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2QV_PaUWhs < this one shows he range of motion available doing the diagnostic "dance"
This image shows an active suspension soarer at the same corner as a tems airbag suspension soarer
This shows the angle of a racing 944 against an active soarer
http://planetsoarer.com/UZZ30/UZZ30.htm < this link is a review of a normal coil suspension owners drive of an active suspension model.
I'll pass on driving a RRS unless you want to give it a proper active suspension system thanks. I doubr a bit of extra rollbar stiffness will make it that nice to drive. Maybe 4 wheel steer would help it
..BlueMR2 said:
My post in the moose test thread said:
I cant comment on the Citroen setup as i know nothing about it, however i will talk about the car i owned previously.
Your example uses two passive cars with identical spring rates one having some odd anti roll bar that can change its stiffness. This makes me think you still don't understand for a few reasons.
1. A fully active car has no anti roll bars, it doesn't need them, so you can't change them during the drive as there are none to change.
2. Spring rate, sorry but fully active doesn't have any springs either.
You later talk about moving to fully active systems, the ones like i'm talking about, which is why i call it active suspension, like Toyota were producing on their cars 20 years ago.
http://planetsoarer.com/UZZ32/uzz32.html < shows you details from Toyotas work and reasons for using it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHK_2eoBaFU < this is a video of an active soarer followed by a standard coil suspension soarer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2QV_PaUWhs < this one shows he range of motion available doing the diagnostic "dance"
This image shows an active suspension soarer at the same corner as a tems airbag suspension soarer
This shows the angle of a racing 944 against an active soarer
http://planetsoarer.com/UZZ30/UZZ30.htm < this link is a review of a normal coil suspension owners drive of an active suspension model.
I'll pass on driving a RRS unless you want to give it a proper active suspension system thanks. I doubr a bit of extra rollbar stiffness will make it that nice to drive. Maybe 4 wheel steer would help it.
Bet the Activa doesn't have those dance moves Your example uses two passive cars with identical spring rates one having some odd anti roll bar that can change its stiffness. This makes me think you still don't understand for a few reasons.
1. A fully active car has no anti roll bars, it doesn't need them, so you can't change them during the drive as there are none to change.
2. Spring rate, sorry but fully active doesn't have any springs either.
You later talk about moving to fully active systems, the ones like i'm talking about, which is why i call it active suspension, like Toyota were producing on their cars 20 years ago.
http://planetsoarer.com/UZZ32/uzz32.html < shows you details from Toyotas work and reasons for using it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHK_2eoBaFU < this is a video of an active soarer followed by a standard coil suspension soarer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2QV_PaUWhs < this one shows he range of motion available doing the diagnostic "dance"
This image shows an active suspension soarer at the same corner as a tems airbag suspension soarer
This shows the angle of a racing 944 against an active soarer
http://planetsoarer.com/UZZ30/UZZ30.htm < this link is a review of a normal coil suspension owners drive of an active suspension model.
I'll pass on driving a RRS unless you want to give it a proper active suspension system thanks. I doubr a bit of extra rollbar stiffness will make it that nice to drive. Maybe 4 wheel steer would help it
..But in correct working order, no they don't. But then how much did the Soarer cost new? And how much do they cost now? And do they ride as smoothly as the Citroen setup when you take the corners away?
I had heard of the Soarer system, but know little about it. The Activa setup is pretty bloody brilliant, and the Toyota system looks like a different approach to it while being just as effective, if not more so. But then price has to come back into the equation sometime. £19k new for the Activa, and about £800 now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09-C33SrJi8&fea...
And I reckon the Activa probably had a better advert:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o3N8yiXscU
And I reckon the Activa probably had a better advert:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o3N8yiXscU
Edited by Kitchski on Thursday 4th November 20:24
Kitchski said:
And I reckon the Activa probably had a better advert:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o3N8yiXscU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o3N8yiXscU
Edited by Kitchski on Thursday 4th November 20:24
http://planetsoarer.com/indexfull.html#UZZ32%20Act...
Loads of links there including pictures of the struts and valve body.
Loads of links there including pictures of the struts and valve body.
BlueMR2 said:
My post in the moose test thread said:
I cant comment on the Citroen setup as i know nothing about it, however i will talk about the car i owned previously.
Your example uses two passive cars with identical spring rates one having some odd anti roll bar that can change its stiffness. This makes me think you still don't understand for a few reasons.
1. A fully active car has no anti roll bars, it doesn't need them, so you can't change them during the drive as there are none to change.
2. Spring rate, sorry but fully active doesn't have any springs either.
You later talk about moving to fully active systems, the ones like i'm talking about, which is why i call it active suspension, like Toyota were producing on their cars 20 years ago.
http://planetsoarer.com/UZZ32/uzz32.html < shows you details from Toyotas work and reasons for using it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHK_2eoBaFU < this is a video of an active soarer followed by a standard coil suspension soarer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2QV_PaUWhs < this one shows he range of motion available doing the diagnostic "dance"
This image shows an active suspension soarer at the same corner as a tems airbag suspension soarer
This shows the angle of a racing 944 against an active soarer
http://planetsoarer.com/UZZ30/UZZ30.htm < this link is a review of a normal coil suspension owners drive of an active suspension model.
I'll pass on driving a RRS unless you want to give it a proper active suspension system thanks. I doubr a bit of extra rollbar stiffness will make it that nice to drive. Maybe 4 wheel steer would help it.
Bet the Activa doesn't have those dance moves Your example uses two passive cars with identical spring rates one having some odd anti roll bar that can change its stiffness. This makes me think you still don't understand for a few reasons.
1. A fully active car has no anti roll bars, it doesn't need them, so you can't change them during the drive as there are none to change.
2. Spring rate, sorry but fully active doesn't have any springs either.
You later talk about moving to fully active systems, the ones like i'm talking about, which is why i call it active suspension, like Toyota were producing on their cars 20 years ago.
http://planetsoarer.com/UZZ32/uzz32.html < shows you details from Toyotas work and reasons for using it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHK_2eoBaFU < this is a video of an active soarer followed by a standard coil suspension soarer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2QV_PaUWhs < this one shows he range of motion available doing the diagnostic "dance"
This image shows an active suspension soarer at the same corner as a tems airbag suspension soarer
This shows the angle of a racing 944 against an active soarer
http://planetsoarer.com/UZZ30/UZZ30.htm < this link is a review of a normal coil suspension owners drive of an active suspension model.
I'll pass on driving a RRS unless you want to give it a proper active suspension system thanks. I doubr a bit of extra rollbar stiffness will make it that nice to drive. Maybe 4 wheel steer would help it
..
Actually read it this time and clicked on the links
So do you have a Soarer then? Also how rare/costly is an active Soarer in the UK? I've seen regualr 4.0 litre GT examples as low as £1400 in really tidy condition. Suspect a 2.5T with active suspension would be worth more, but I'm not sure how much more.
I used to own one. It was very expensive to run.
I'm not sure on current prices, they are very rare, they only made 873 for the Japanese market around 20 years ago, so as you can imagine there are less around now. There are a few in the UK as well as Australia.
Knowledge improves as time goes on as well, but it is hard as unlike the base models sold in the US as Lexus they are Japanese only so the workshop manuals are in Japanese only.
You can only buy an active with the 4L V8, no other engine option, so no 2.5tt active. However the engines respond well to supercharging if in good condition.
The 4ws is surprisingly useful when parking and reduces the turning circle from 10.8 meters from the standard cars to 9.8 meters.
Many of these are fully kitted out however some of the features are/can include. EMV (touchscreen) for stereo (radio and 12 cd changer) heater and (no use outside Japan) sat nav. Supersonic heated mirrors to get rid of ice, rear view camera. Rear air purifier, rear wiper, cool 3D floating dash for speed etc. As well as active suspension and 4 wheel steering.
I'm not sure on current prices, they are very rare, they only made 873 for the Japanese market around 20 years ago, so as you can imagine there are less around now. There are a few in the UK as well as Australia.
Knowledge improves as time goes on as well, but it is hard as unlike the base models sold in the US as Lexus they are Japanese only so the workshop manuals are in Japanese only.
You can only buy an active with the 4L V8, no other engine option, so no 2.5tt active. However the engines respond well to supercharging if in good condition.
The 4ws is surprisingly useful when parking and reduces the turning circle from 10.8 meters from the standard cars to 9.8 meters.
Many of these are fully kitted out however some of the features are/can include. EMV (touchscreen) for stereo (radio and 12 cd changer) heater and (no use outside Japan) sat nav. Supersonic heated mirrors to get rid of ice, rear view camera. Rear air purifier, rear wiper, cool 3D floating dash for speed etc. As well as active suspension and 4 wheel steering.
BlueMR2 said:
I used to own one. It was very expensive to run.
I'm not sure on current prices, they are very rare, they only made 873 for the Japanese market around 20 years ago, so as you can imagine there are less around now. There are a few in the UK as well as Australia.
Knowledge improves as time goes on as well, but it is hard as unlike the base models sold in the US as Lexus they are Japanese only so the workshop manuals are in Japanese only.
You can only buy an active with the 4L V8, no other engine option, so no 2.5tt active. However the engines respond well to supercharging if in good condition.
The 4ws is surprisingly useful when parking and reduces the turning circle from 10.8 meters from the standard cars to 9.8 meters.
Many of these are fully kitted out however some of the features are/can include. EMV (touchscreen) for stereo (radio and 12 cd changer) heater and (no use outside Japan) sat nav. Supersonic heated mirrors to get rid of ice, rear view camera. Rear air purifier, rear wiper, cool 3D floating dash for speed etc. As well as active suspension and 4 wheel steering.
Cheers for the info.I'm not sure on current prices, they are very rare, they only made 873 for the Japanese market around 20 years ago, so as you can imagine there are less around now. There are a few in the UK as well as Australia.
Knowledge improves as time goes on as well, but it is hard as unlike the base models sold in the US as Lexus they are Japanese only so the workshop manuals are in Japanese only.
You can only buy an active with the 4L V8, no other engine option, so no 2.5tt active. However the engines respond well to supercharging if in good condition.
The 4ws is surprisingly useful when parking and reduces the turning circle from 10.8 meters from the standard cars to 9.8 meters.
Many of these are fully kitted out however some of the features are/can include. EMV (touchscreen) for stereo (radio and 12 cd changer) heater and (no use outside Japan) sat nav. Supersonic heated mirrors to get rid of ice, rear view camera. Rear air purifier, rear wiper, cool 3D floating dash for speed etc. As well as active suspension and 4 wheel steering.
What made it so expensive to run? Parts or was it unreliable?
Mine was a bit unreliable, although the 4ws never caused a problem, and the suspension had a nitrogen recharge but was ok apart from that, it was just general problems with the car.
New AC pump and other smaller bits, a fuel pump ECU, ended up having another engine put in etc. A good one would be very nice though and my experience isn't typical of Toyota's and Lexus.
If it was as reliable as the MR2 was when i had it, it would have been a very nice car.
The ride is so smooth you wouldn't believe it. It's like all the roads around you have been repaved glass smooth. Then you drive a normal car again and realise they all suck.
New AC pump and other smaller bits, a fuel pump ECU, ended up having another engine put in etc. A good one would be very nice though and my experience isn't typical of Toyota's and Lexus.
If it was as reliable as the MR2 was when i had it, it would have been a very nice car.
The ride is so smooth you wouldn't believe it. It's like all the roads around you have been repaved glass smooth. Then you drive a normal car again and realise they all suck.
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