Policemen, can I have your opinions? (ebay)
Discussion
I have come to the conclusion that ebay is above the law. There are multiple violations going on there regarding vehicle fraud.
The trade of V5 documents.
According to the writing on the reverse of the document. Not telling the DVLA about ANY CHANGES (Ie scrapped, exported) is a crime punishable by serious measures (<2 years, <£5000) I assume the sale of these is therefore banned by the regulations as it can provide documentation for stolen vehicles.
Since vehicles are still being stolen. I propose that this is a problem.
Being a bit of a classic car buff (numpty) and not wanting my beasts stolen/re-registered, devalued. I have been on to ebay (not in their prohibited lists) as well as having written to DVLC (who have done FA).
What is being done about this? As specialist car enthusiasts, our stuff is our pride, pain and dedication. The documents are therefore as desirable as theft for some.
This area needs action now. My one man crusade is not going anywhere. I would like this to stop.
(as it is as illegal as me growing a field of ganja this stuff is blatantly happening, defying the law)
Grrrrrrr!
The trade of V5 documents.
According to the writing on the reverse of the document. Not telling the DVLA about ANY CHANGES (Ie scrapped, exported) is a crime punishable by serious measures (<2 years, <£5000) I assume the sale of these is therefore banned by the regulations as it can provide documentation for stolen vehicles.
Since vehicles are still being stolen. I propose that this is a problem.
Being a bit of a classic car buff (numpty) and not wanting my beasts stolen/re-registered, devalued. I have been on to ebay (not in their prohibited lists) as well as having written to DVLC (who have done FA).
What is being done about this? As specialist car enthusiasts, our stuff is our pride, pain and dedication. The documents are therefore as desirable as theft for some.
This area needs action now. My one man crusade is not going anywhere. I would like this to stop.
(as it is as illegal as me growing a field of ganja this stuff is blatantly happening, defying the law)
Grrrrrrr!
yeah ive noticed this too,people trying to flog the i.d tags and log books for lotus cortina's,mexico's,rs2000's and more.
there is a guy selling one particular car....a white convertable rare ford mk4 cortina....that has been noted as having a bent mot on it due to the car being advertised elsewhere and being subsequently viewed by a member of another website,the car then being sold to this other party as needing welding work and other bits for the mot and within a day of being bought the car was being advertised as having 12 months ticket......this same guy is selling a dodgy looking mexico that i would have thought was in the same position as the tina.
when the same member called and asked about the history of the car and what work had been done for the mot,the seller was very abrupt with the caller and hung up on him.
not a good sign at-all.
p.s,ebay item no: 2479388781
>> Edited by cortinaman on Friday 28th May 21:57
there is a guy selling one particular car....a white convertable rare ford mk4 cortina....that has been noted as having a bent mot on it due to the car being advertised elsewhere and being subsequently viewed by a member of another website,the car then being sold to this other party as needing welding work and other bits for the mot and within a day of being bought the car was being advertised as having 12 months ticket......this same guy is selling a dodgy looking mexico that i would have thought was in the same position as the tina.
when the same member called and asked about the history of the car and what work had been done for the mot,the seller was very abrupt with the caller and hung up on him.
not a good sign at-all.
p.s,ebay item no: 2479388781
>> Edited by cortinaman on Friday 28th May 21:57
Thread here also: www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=97624
It does not appear that Ebay's policy prohibits the listing of a V5/log book, but it does specifically prohibit the listing of "Current vehicle licence plates, or plates that claim to resemble such current licences". Now, what is "current" in this context?
Presently for sale on ebay.co.uk are:
1961 MG V5 registration document logbook;
Triumph Spitfire 1974 V5 Log Book
Austin Mini Cooper Log Book V5 1963 997cc
Heinkel bubble car log book (not V5)
Mini Clubman Est. 1970 Log Book + Tag
YAMAHA FS1E LOG BOOK (no frame or engine)
1974 MINI LOG BOOK
Landrover land rover Lightweight s3 t/e log book/vin pl
JBF 859 registration number original green log book
Lambretta LOG BOOK
Vespa LOG BOOK
MINI 1959 LOG BOOK REG: XYT ***
MINI 1964 LOG BOOK REG: **** NU
MINI CONTRYMAN ESTATE 1962 LOG BOOK REG: **** PT
Lambretta LOG BOOK
Also somone is "looking for a v5 for a kit car log book q reg"
There are others where it is not clear whether a vehicle is included.
Streaky
It does not appear that Ebay's policy prohibits the listing of a V5/log book, but it does specifically prohibit the listing of "Current vehicle licence plates, or plates that claim to resemble such current licences". Now, what is "current" in this context?
Presently for sale on ebay.co.uk are:
1961 MG V5 registration document logbook;
Triumph Spitfire 1974 V5 Log Book
Austin Mini Cooper Log Book V5 1963 997cc
Heinkel bubble car log book (not V5)
Mini Clubman Est. 1970 Log Book + Tag
YAMAHA FS1E LOG BOOK (no frame or engine)
1974 MINI LOG BOOK
Landrover land rover Lightweight s3 t/e log book/vin pl
JBF 859 registration number original green log book
Lambretta LOG BOOK
Vespa LOG BOOK
MINI 1959 LOG BOOK REG: XYT ***
MINI 1964 LOG BOOK REG: **** NU
MINI CONTRYMAN ESTATE 1962 LOG BOOK REG: **** PT
Lambretta LOG BOOK
Also somone is "looking for a v5 for a kit car log book q reg"
There are others where it is not clear whether a vehicle is included.
Streaky
You highlight, IMHO, an area that is unplugged in relation to possible ringing.
Been through Vehicle Excise and Reg Act 1994, R.V. (Reg and Lic) Regs 2002, Vehicles Crimes Act 2001 and cannot find anything illegal in the purchase and subsequent possession of a Log Book/V5 from E Bay as outlined. What one does with it MAY become and illegal enterprise.
The Acts and Regs place an onus on Keepers on alteration/ change of ownership/ scrapping to notify S of State and submit Reg Doc (RD) likewise Insurance Companies on write offs (who are given the power to destroy the RD). Not to do so is an offence but limitation on proceedings expire after 6 months on coming to notice and not more than 3 years from commission of offence. That's the old Reg Keeper. So in relation to those listed the seller may have committed an offence of failing to surrender but I doubt if DVLA/BiB will make any follow up enquires to see if that is the case and report accordingly.
Scrappies/Salvage have a duty to notify destruction and keep records.
But no where can I find a reference to say that it is illegal to purchase/obtain/possess a RD when not in possession of the vehicle it refers to.
So this must open up an avenue for the ringer.
But, if DVLA are contacted, when application is made for the "new" vehicle to be taxed and there has been a marker on the file of the RD vehicle which it assumes, then they can call for a Vehicle Inspection/Enquiry by VOSA to verify it is OK. The chances are that it could well appear so if backed up with all receipts etc.
If you agree serving BiB's may I suggest a report to ACPO Traffic Committee/DVLA to have the loophole plugged?.
DVD
Been through Vehicle Excise and Reg Act 1994, R.V. (Reg and Lic) Regs 2002, Vehicles Crimes Act 2001 and cannot find anything illegal in the purchase and subsequent possession of a Log Book/V5 from E Bay as outlined. What one does with it MAY become and illegal enterprise.
The Acts and Regs place an onus on Keepers on alteration/ change of ownership/ scrapping to notify S of State and submit Reg Doc (RD) likewise Insurance Companies on write offs (who are given the power to destroy the RD). Not to do so is an offence but limitation on proceedings expire after 6 months on coming to notice and not more than 3 years from commission of offence. That's the old Reg Keeper. So in relation to those listed the seller may have committed an offence of failing to surrender but I doubt if DVLA/BiB will make any follow up enquires to see if that is the case and report accordingly.
Scrappies/Salvage have a duty to notify destruction and keep records.
But no where can I find a reference to say that it is illegal to purchase/obtain/possess a RD when not in possession of the vehicle it refers to.
So this must open up an avenue for the ringer.
But, if DVLA are contacted, when application is made for the "new" vehicle to be taxed and there has been a marker on the file of the RD vehicle which it assumes, then they can call for a Vehicle Inspection/Enquiry by VOSA to verify it is OK. The chances are that it could well appear so if backed up with all receipts etc.
If you agree serving BiB's may I suggest a report to ACPO Traffic Committee/DVLA to have the loophole plugged?.
DVD
But, there are stringent rules/rituals to follow when combining vehicles/modding. Kit car owners will know what I'm on about Chassis=5 points, etc. If you could just whack a new plate on it or just swap a "cherished" plate on your fat BMW from a non-existant V5 let alone the donor car having tax and MOT, it is total madness.
There are rules and procedures and then just a blatant "Go in over the hedge".
They (the government) must have lost millions of pounds on people avoiding their tolls on this. But then again, its like any institution. Who really gives a funk? As long as our pockets are still full.......
There are rules and procedures and then just a blatant "Go in over the hedge".
They (the government) must have lost millions of pounds on people avoiding their tolls on this. But then again, its like any institution. Who really gives a funk? As long as our pockets are still full.......
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