RE: Japanese Domestic Market Civic Type Rs: Spotted

[Mr2Mike]

Butter Face said:

Oh right. Possible then of course, use a DC5 rack and just plug up the pipes. Would be fking horrible though.

Far easier to just use the EPAS rack and remove the worm that the motor drivers, and also lock up the torque sensor. However it would undoubtedly be awful. There seems to be a fad of converting the previous generation Civics to "manual" racks by removing the pump and coupling the hydraulic pipes together. Any possible increase in feedback is immediately negated by the stupidly heavy steering that results, they really are quite horrible to drive like this.

There are a few EP3s that have been fitted with the DC5 rack, though possibly with an electric pump rather than the original engine driven pump. There has also been at least one disturbed individual that has fitted an EP3 rack and control electronics into a DC5, though I have no idea why anyone would want to do this.

[WCZ]

JMF894 said:

I also had a brand new EP3 Type R back in 2005. Sold after 8 months. terrible steering, dreadful traction when damp/cold from the potenzas and only average performance for the class when all's said and done. Lots of hype and too many irritations for me. I did love the engine and gearbox though.

I sold mine after a few weeks, quite possibly the worst steering of any performance car I've driven

[krismccloy]

Reasonably priced EK9 in the article, My father as recently bought a completely standard EP3 from Japan as a 2nd car, He's had a couple of DC2's in the past too. And one thing I definitely notice is the revised electric motor parameters on the pre-facelift and facelift cars, Fair bit more weight in my 2006 premier.

In terms of increasing steering feel, ease of use and direct self centering a Wavetrac LSD, An addtional 2 degrees caster, -ve front camber, New steering slider and fresh grease in the rack has transformed my car. I've owned a DC2 and EK4 import with hydraulic PAS, and my EP3 in the current state definitely feels alive with a positive sense of what the wheels are up to.

The EP3's come with a VGR rack, Which is why I think they feel a little dead around the centre, I've got a theory that this was to help combat the effect of the torque (VTEC) felt through the steering, Could be wrong though.

Edited by krismccloy on Monday 13th November 12:21

Edited by krismccloy on Monday 13th November 12:21

[culpz]

I'm sure that, for some/many, a JDM EP3 Civic Type R is worth the extra cash over a standard UK model. I'm not so sure that it would for me but, then again, i'm not really a huge Honda fanatic, if i'm being honest. You could get a cheap EP3 and spend the change left over modding it exactly how you want it.

Maybe i'm just defeating the object here?

[Butter Face]

culpz said:

I'm sure that, for some/many, a JDM EP3 Civic Type R is worth the extra cash over a standard UK model. I'm not so sure that it would for me but, then again, i'm not really a huge Honda fanatic, if i'm being honest. You could get a cheap EP3 and spend the change left over modding it exactly how you want it.

Maybe i'm just defeating the object here?

It depends on what floats your boat. My car probably owes me the same as a standard JDM EP3 but is (IMO) a much more capable car built by myself.

But some people like the rarity/exclusivity/JDM’nees and extra out of the box capability, that’s why people spend twice as much on a JDM EP3 or a DC5 for instance.

[aji621]

EK9 still the only car I regret selling. Absolutely loved mine

[VTECMatt]

aji621 said:

EK9 still the only car I regret selling. Absolutely loved mine

Me too, I had one of the first in the country.

[culpz]

Butter Face said:

culpz said:

I'm sure that, for some/many, a JDM EP3 Civic Type R is worth the extra cash over a standard UK model. I'm not so sure that it would for me but, then again, i'm not really a huge Honda fanatic, if i'm being honest. You could get a cheap EP3 and spend the change left over modding it exactly how you want it.

Maybe i'm just defeating the object here?

It depends on what floats your boat. My car probably owes me the same as a standard JDM EP3 but is (IMO) a much more capable car built by myself.

But some people like the rarity/exclusivity/JDM’nees and extra out of the box capability, that’s why people spend twice as much on a JDM EP3 or a DC5 for instance.

I'd buy a normal UK EP3, probably at the cheaper end of the scale, for sure. In fact, i'm contemplating one over a Clio 172/182.

However, i just don't think i could really spend and justify for what the JDM one's go for. I'd probably just end up in something else.

[Matt Bird]

havoc said:

I doubt a non-assisted EP3 rack would be that user-friendly...esp. not with 17" rims (which I believe are the smallest that will fit over the front calipers).

EK9 (on 15"s) arguably doesn't need a manual rack - like the DC2 it has amongst the sweetest PAS racks going (certainly for fwd, and neither are corrupted by torque-steer).


Anyway - PH, what about the daddy of CTRs (OK, grandson maybe) - the FD2!

Cos I've done those already

https://www.pistonheads.com/regulars/ph-spottedyky...

https://www.pistonheads.com/regulars/ph-spottedyky...

[F1GTRUeno]

TooMany2cvs said:

Domestic means not exported. A car built in Swindon for sale in Japan needs exporting.

A car built outside Japan for sale in Japan is Japanese Market.
A car built in Japan for sale in Japan is Japanese Domestic Market.
The domestic market for a Swindon-built car is the UK.

Domestic market for a Boxster would be Germany or Finland.

Calling anything sold in Japan JDM is no more than scene-tax humpty-dumptyism.

Surely the Japanese Domestic Market is any Japanese manufacturer selling cars only for the Japanese market, but not necessarily the individual car being built there.

[HedgeyGedgey]

To clear the whole JDM thing. Its a car thats specifically built for the Japanese Domestic Market. Import/export has nothing to do with it. You can for example have a JDM mini (not that one built by BMW) its still a mini but it differs from the one we got in the UK and is more suited to the Japanese market. Same with the dc2, the jdm one only differs ever so slightly and no ones moaning that its not a JDM car

[TooMany2cvs]

F1GTRUeno said:

Surely the Japanese Domestic Market is any Japanese manufacturer selling cars only for the Japanese market, but not necessarily the individual car being built there.

That's one way to look at it - but how far up the corporate tree do you go?

Are Morgan about the only UKDM cars left? A UK-built Juke or Civic certainly isn't, and it's very hard to argue that a Mini or Rolls or Bentley or Jaguar is, unless you're going just by the nebulous marketing concept of brand/badge - and who could credibly argue Vauxhall was anything but a badge-swapped Opel?
Is a US-sold Chevrolet Spark a USDM car, even though it was designed and built by GM Korea, rebadged from Daewoo?
Is any Australian-sold Holden AusDM, even that same Korean Spark, and even though the last Aussie plant's closed?

HedgeyGedgey said:

To clear the whole JDM thing. Its a car thats specifically built for the Japanese Domestic Market. Import/export has nothing to do with it. You can for example have a JDM mini (not that one built by BMW) its still a mini but it differs from the one we got in the UK and is more suited to the Japanese market. Same with the dc2, the jdm one only differs ever so slightly and no ones moaning that its not a JDM car

Which would mean the word "Domestic" is tautologous and redundant, since absolutely everything sold through a Japanese dealer is Japanese Market and, by that definition, Japanese Domestic Market.

[h3nde]

Ok, my old EK Civic was built by Honda of Japan and sold new by Honda in England. So it’s a UDKM spec car. My now EP3 was built in Swindon and sold here so it too is an UKDM car

But here’s a spanner in the works!! If you’re born in Japan to English parents and come back to the UK are you Japanese, English or both?

Edited by h3nde on Tuesday 14th November 19:04

[TooMany2cvs]

h3nde said:

Ok, my old EK Civic was built by Honda of Japan and sold new by Honda in England. So it’s a UDKM spec car.

Well, UK market - it's been imported. Unless you regard the "Domestic" as being everything sold in the UK, so redundant.

h3nde said:

My now EP3 was built in Swindon and sold here so it too is an UKDM car

That is UKDM, yes. But not if you go by the "But it's a Japanese brand" logic.

[Klippie]

I can't see the love for this type of shape of Civic, in 1996 I have a brand new VTi I lasted seven months with it possibly one of the worst driving cars I've ever owned, horrid handling and felt like it had been thrown together rather than built.

Not cheap either £16k at the time.

[h3nde]

TooMany2cvs said:

h3nde said:

Ok, my old EK Civic was built by Honda of Japan and sold new by Honda in England. So it’s a UDKM spec car.

Well, UK market - it's been imported. Unless you regard the "Domestic" as being everything sold in the UK, so redundant.

h3nde said:

My now EP3 was built in Swindon and sold here so it too is an UKDM car

That is UKDM, yes. But not if you go by the "But it's a Japanese brand" logic.

Can we just agree cars have dual citizenship

[F1GTRUeno]

TooMany2cvs said:

F1GTRUeno said:

Surely the Japanese Domestic Market is any Japanese manufacturer selling cars only for the Japanese market, but not necessarily the individual car being built there.

That's one way to look at it - but how far up the corporate tree do you go?

Are Morgan about the only UKDM cars left? A UK-built Juke or Civic certainly isn't, and it's very hard to argue that a Mini or Rolls or Bentley or Jaguar is, unless you're going just by the nebulous marketing concept of brand/badge - and who could credibly argue Vauxhall was anything but a badge-swapped Opel?
Is a US-sold Chevrolet Spark a USDM car, even though it was designed and built by GM Korea, rebadged from Daewoo?
Is any Australian-sold Holden AusDM, even that same Korean Spark, and even though the last Aussie plant's closed?

HedgeyGedgey said:

To clear the whole JDM thing. Its a car thats specifically built for the Japanese Domestic Market. Import/export has nothing to do with it. You can for example have a JDM mini (not that one built by BMW) its still a mini but it differs from the one we got in the UK and is more suited to the Japanese market. Same with the dc2, the jdm one only differs ever so slightly and no ones moaning that its not a JDM car

Which would mean the word "Domestic" is tautologous and redundant, since absolutely everything sold through a Japanese dealer is Japanese Market and, by that definition, Japanese Domestic Market.

The Civics in the article are specifically for the Japanese market, a different specification to elsewhere in the world or simply not sold anywhere else officially. The Japanese market is the domestic market for the Japanese manufacturers, hence JDM. Just because they were built in Swindon doesn't make it different because they're only sold in the Japanese market to Japanese market specifications by a Japanese manufacturer.

Surely it's not that hard right? There is no JDM MINI. There's a Japanese market MINI.

Morgan don't make cars specifically for the UK market that are different to anywhere else they sell a car so there wouldn't be a UKDM Morgan. (Quite willing to be brought up on this fact because I'm not up on Morgans).

If the US Chevrolet Spark is different in spec to all other Chevrolet Sparks then yes it would be a USDM Spark. Because although it's really a Daewoo, it's a Chevrolet and Chevrolet are American. Domestic is literally the manufacturer's home market and all the cars they sell for that market in that spec, regardless of where that individual model is built in the first place. If they sell that car in the same spec everywhere then it's not a domestic model.

Edited by F1GTRUeno on Tuesday 14th November 20:07

Edited by F1GTRUeno on Tuesday 14th November 20:08

Edited by F1GTRUeno on Tuesday 14th November 20:08