RE: New Mercedes-AMG C63 confirmed as 650hp hybrid

RE: New Mercedes-AMG C63 confirmed as 650hp hybrid

Wednesday 31st March

New Mercedes-AMG C63 confirmed as 650hp hybrid

V8 makes way for 443hp four-cylinder engine and rear-mounted electric motor in 2021 car



So itโ€™s official now and beyond doubt: Mercedes-AMG will remake its much-loved V8 C63 as a hybrid four-cylinder model by the end of 2021. Using a comprehensively reworked version of the A45โ€™s turbocharged 2.0-litre along with a rear-mounted electric drive unit, the incoming BMW M3 rival will have around 650hp, 201hp of which will come from the in-house-developed electrical gubbins. No doubt itโ€™ll be rapid. But it wonโ€™t be an AMG V8.

Of course, the writing has been on the wall for yonks, and you could argue that for Mercedes-AMG, a firm long synonymous with thumping V8s, to make such a significant switch to electrification this early in the decade is a bold move. Itโ€™ll still make V8s, with the division confirming to PH in a recent invite-only press conference that the GT four-door 73 is indeed due this summer with a hybrid V8 E Performance setup offering over 800hp and 738lb ft of torque combined. The first customer Project Ones are also due for delivery late this year. Big stuff, but as expected. Losing the nose-heavy C63 will still hurt.

Predictably, AMG used its E-performance presentation to really hammer home the technical capability of its all-new hybrid setup. The modular hardware is to be largely identical in the opening 73 and 63 series models, and several more after them, using a fully in-house developed rear-mounted battery pack with 650 individually water-cooled lithium-ion cells, to enable consistent peak performance. HPB80, as itโ€™s called internally, is a 6.1kWh battery said to dispense and absorb energy much faster than conventional alternatives thanks to a power density thatโ€™s double the industry average. The tech has apparently been pulled straight from Lewis Hamiltonโ€™s F1 car, and developed by AMGโ€™s UK-based High Performance Powertrains to enable 94hp of constant power and a 201hp peak.

To ensure punchy low-speed performance and continued supply of torque at high speed, the 18,000rpm electric motor will drive through a two-speed gearbox. Second is engaged from 87mph, with the ratios set to be set to ensure โ€œa good match to the engineโ€™s wide window of torqueโ€. Key to the character of AMGโ€™s future hybrid models will be the division of petrol and electric power in this architecture; in both the eight and four-cylinder cars, the battery will power the rear-mounted motor exclusively, although interestingly, the prop shaft that connects both ends will allow for torque to travel in both directions. This comes as part of the layoutโ€™s active torque juggling in order to boost traction; should the rear be slipping too much, electric torque can be sent to the front axle. If that has you scratching your head, youโ€™re not alone.




All in, the electric hardware adds 200kg to the car, but AMGโ€™s team assured PH that in the C63 at least, the added mass is somewhat countered by a lightened engine. Not only is the 2.0-litre, mounted in the C63 longitudinally, obviously going to be lighter than the 4.0-litre V8, itโ€™s said to use more lightweight components in a bid to counteract the weight gain. Weโ€™ve no numbers yet, but weโ€™re told to expect a โ€œnear perfectโ€ weight distribution, as well as tight packaging at the rear, with the axleโ€™s limited slip differential integrated into the electric drive unit itself. AMG confirmed that both 73 and 63 models will be full electric capable, but the ranges โ€“ neither of which were even hinted at โ€“ arenโ€™t set to be particularly large. The focus here, weโ€™re told, is on performance and efficiency in hybrid modes.

Emphasising that is the next C63โ€™s engine, which gets plenty of its own innovations in a new M139 specification. Producing 443hp alone, the four-pot gets an electric turbocharger said to offer the โ€œbenefits of both small and large turbosโ€, and the throttle response of a naturally-aspirated engine. It uses a 400v power supply to spin at speeds of up to 156,000 rpm, with the blower and electric motor โ€œconnected to the high-temperature cooling circuitโ€ of the engine for optimum temperatures throughout. Additionally, both the four-pot and V8 engines get belt-driven starter generators for an extra 14hp boost and more throttle reactivity.

Somewhat inevitably, the four-pot C63 will have the naked performance to match the present V8 model, with the added benefit of all that extra traction. The 800hp-plus 73 will obviously take a step forward compared with the performance of its siblings โ€“ a 171hp power advantage over the 63 S ensures that. You can drive both in a conventional manner, which is to say leave them in hybrid and leave the regenerative tech in its most relaxed setting, where coasting is possible. But you can also wind up the regen to its maximum 90kW recovery level, where one-pedal driving is possible. AMG admits this might be annoying on a track, but that itโ€™s the most efficient mode for road driving. And before you ask, thanks to the quick charge of the battery, youโ€™re never left without enough electric power to provide maximum hybrid performance. Those peak figures are permanently possible. AMG is yet to reveal plug-in charge times.

Following these two first series run AMG hybrids, more will follow using the same split of front-mounted four- or eight-cylinder and rear-mounted electric motor. The electric setup is said to be modular, so larger, more range-focused batteries could be added, but it doesnโ€™t look like there are immediate plans to integrate the inline-six currently used in mild-hybrid forms. AMG CEO Philip Schiemer hinted that an all-electric platform is in the works, but ensured nobody could question him on the matter โ€“ โ€œthatโ€™s not for today,โ€ he said. For AMG, like every major brand, increasing electrification is inevitable, but itโ€™s to be a gradual process. One that, Mercedes assured us, takes into account the importance of emotion and character in its core models. Itโ€™s ingenuity in that regard is about to be put to the test.ย 




Author
Discussion

anthonysjb

Original Poster:

437 posts

100 months

Tuesday 30th March
quotequote all
So grim lol

0a

22,720 posts

158 months

Tuesday 30th March
quotequote all
Zero appeal whatsoever. If people are fine with a characterless powertrain, surely they will just go with an all electric option?

dfm37

8 posts

2 months

Tuesday 30th March
quotequote all
Its a sad day

2strokebroke

27 posts

1 month

Tuesday 30th March
quotequote all
I can see this going down well.

MissChief

5,731 posts

132 months

Tuesday 30th March
quotequote all
Who is going to buy a used one of these in 5, 6 or even 10 years time when the only place you'll be able to take it for, well, anything is the main Stealer and likely £200ph by then! Cars are becoming too complicated for their own good, it'll be to the point where people will avoid used cars like the plague and stick to ICE's.

GTRene

12,079 posts

188 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
hm... luckily the old ones are still there :-)

although that 4 cyll inline with 400+hp, could be a great engine for some engine swaps in other cars, so they still can be used for parts.
thinking about such old Lotus Europa or R5 Turbo, I saw today a R5 Turbo with a RX7 engine wankel (rotary) and 300+hp... on bringatrailer :-) sounded good as well.

witten

40 posts

12 months

Wednesday 31st March
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Please at least say it won't have 4 exhaust pipes!!!!

C.MW

367 posts

33 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
It should be named amg c20 then. A 2 tonne, 4 pot c63 amg successor. What a thing to celeberate.

Edit: A potential buyer might as well get the a45 and be done with it.

Edited by C.MW on Wednesday 31st March 06:14

Sandpit Steve

2,615 posts

38 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
While the 450bhp 2-litre engine is undoubtedly a fantastic piece of F1-derived engineering, and the new car is going have astonishing performance, who will want one of these over the outgoing raucous V8?

Buy the old one now, while you still can!

Gameface

16,110 posts

41 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
I've not read the article. End of an era.

sidesauce

1,665 posts

182 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
MissChief said:
Who is going to buy a used one of these in 5, 6 or even 10 years time when the only place you'll be able to take it for, well, anything is the main Stealer and likely £200ph by then! Cars are becoming too complicated for their own good, it'll be to the point where people will avoid used cars like the plague and stick to ICE's.
The question is, who will care. BEVs are more simple than ICE'd cars, less moving parts and therefore things to go wrong for a start. Government encouragement (in the form of taxes/tolls/charges) will get to the point where people will avoid ICE cars like the plague and stick with BEVs.

drpep

1,566 posts

132 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
And when in breaks down in3 years and 6 months good luck working on that wild rats-nest of complexity.

A lease-only vehicle if ever there was one. Or just accept that it’s will be either a 443 hp or 201 hp vehicle depending on which half of the powertrain dies first.

I’m sure it’s a laudable effort but it’s not at all appealing. May as well go full electric and get better performance at this point

Filibuster

1,732 posts

179 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
I really fo wonder wether it wouldn‘t have been better if they would have gotten from V8 to fully electric.

The Taycan is a fabulous car and I’d have one over 4 pot Hybrid AMG (says the owner of a 4 pot Hybrid in form of a Volvo V90 T8).

chelme

1,129 posts

134 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
0a said:
Zero appeal whatsoever. If people are fine with a characterless powertrain, surely they will just go with an all electric option?
This was exactly what I thought. The move from 8 to 4 is tragic really.

Fusion777

265 posts

12 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
These responses weren’t predicted at all biggrin

Sandpit Steve

2,615 posts

38 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
Filibuster said:
I really fo wonder wether it wouldn‘t have been better if they would have gotten from V8 to fully electric.

The Taycan is a fabulous car and I’d have one over 4 pot Hybrid AMG (says the owner of a 4 pot Hybrid in form of a Volvo V90 T8).
That’s a good point. If they’d simply dropped the C63 moniker, and launched a Taycan-rivalling C-iR or something, they wouldn’t be getting half the negativity coming they way this morning.

Court_S

4,352 posts

141 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
I wonder how much it’ll weigh? The current C63 is a porker let alone with batteries and electric motors being added. Yes the new four pot engine will weigh less but 200kg is a lot to offset.

It feels like a rather pointless half way house; they should have had one last hurrah for and ICE engine or just gone full electric.

I agree with posters about buying one in a few years time.

arkenphel

474 posts

169 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
Use a box of tissues for this news? Whatever for?

I'd use a box of tissues friends I think about the V8 cars though...

blue al

401 posts

123 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
Was a lighter v6, and a lighter car not an option....

ae2006

85 posts

61 months

Wednesday 31st March
quotequote all
Court_S said:
I wonder how much it’ll weigh? The current C63 is a porker let alone with batteries and electric motors being added. Yes the new four pot engine will weigh less but 200kg is a lot to offset.

It feels like a rather pointless half way house; they should have had one last hurrah for and ICE engine or just gone full electric.

I agree with posters about buying one in a few years time.
+1
Thought that aswell. Apart from that, according to the pictures the placement of the battery in the rear must result in a tiny boot!

We will see if it works out for Mercedes, i have my doubts. They could have build a Port a loo with a steering wheel around the current V8 and would sell a lot of them, they are everywhere and not a single one is driven in an especially silent matter.

Edited by ae2006 on Wednesday 31st March 07:24