Saturday 22nd July 2017

Ford Focus RS at the 'ring: Time For Coffee?

A hot hatch with a Nordschleife lap time over eight minutes? Whatever next?!

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Let's be clear from the off: 8min 6secs is still a very, very fast time for a Ford Focus to lap the Nurburgring in. It's just that we're in bizarre situation now where it doesn't sound all that exceptional.

A few caveats to start: this is a production Focus RS tested by sportauto, rather than whatever cars the manufacturers use for their 'official' times. We also don't know what tyre the car is on, though you would have to assume the RS is using the optional Cup 2 (rather than the standard Super Sport), like the Leon and Golf used on their laps. And, well, is there an argument to be made that the Focus is less track focused than those cars?

Whatever the case, this is still a fantastic video to watch, mainly due to Christian Gebhardt's balls-out style. It's worth noting too just how little steering effort it needs and, while the tyres do squeal, the RS seems to stave off understeer pretty well. Your thoughts and comments are of course always welcome!

Surely they'll want to get under eight minutes, right? Perhaps the new Option Pack will do just that. Or an RS500...

Watch the video here.

[PetrolAholic]

I keep looking at these as a bit of a fun toy/mid life crisis. After owning so many nice cars in my time I've never actually owned a Ford but every time I see one I find myself wanting one.

[IanCress]

The obesession with 'ring times continues. Meanwhile, in the broken tarmac, pot-holed real world, a car with a slightly softer setup is likely quicker. Taking the bumps in it's stride, rather than skipping off line and feeling too nervous to give you confidence to push on.

[Tuvra]

IanCress said:

The obesession with 'ring times continues. Meanwhile, in the broken tarmac, pot-holed real world, a car with a slightly softer setup is likely quicker. Taking the bumps in it's stride, rather than skipping off line and feeling too nervous to give you confidence to push on.

Focus RS does many things well, taking bumps in its stride is not one of them.

[anonymous-user]

Tuvra said:

IanCress said:

The obesession with 'ring times continues. Meanwhile, in the broken tarmac, pot-holed real world, a car with a slightly softer setup is likely quicker. Taking the bumps in it's stride, rather than skipping off line and feeling too nervous to give you confidence to push on.

Focus RS does many things well, taking bumps in its stride is not one of them.

I think that's what Ian was getting at.

Also agree that the ring time obsession needs to stop,first it was bhp, then 0-60 now ring times...

[Gibbo205]

Fun factor, how a car makes you feel and how easy it is to live with are some of the most important aspects.

Yes the RS is harsh, not particular that quick on a track, but on a wet British B road it will excel just like EVO's and Imprezas do.

[WCZ]

evo's have never set great ring times either but on the road they are one of if not the fastest cars around

[AmosMoses]

Impressive, i've heard a few people in the US swapping the rs springs for st ones, supposedly helps with the ride and doesn't make too much of a difference to on track handling.

[Ultrafunkula]

Perhaps the 'Ring should have a gravel section, that might give more real world overall times...

[Kawasicki]

Repeat after me....

The 'Ring is bumpy
The 'Ring is bumpy
The 'Ring is bumpy
...

[Ahbefive]

I was at the 'Ring last weekend.

My friends and I managed to get laps in the region of 9-10minutes and even that felt pretty scary at points. 8minutes is absolutely flying round there.

[Alex]

Kawasicki said:

Repeat after me....

The 'Ring is bumpy
The 'Ring is bumpy
The 'Ring is bumpy
...

Compared to a regular race track it is, but not when compared to a B-road (especially in the UK!). The 'Ring is pretty smooth.

[Integroo]

Ahbefive said:

I was at the 'Ring last weekend.

My friends and I managed to get laps in the region of 9-10minutes and even that felt pretty scary at points. 8minutes is absolutely flying round there.

In what car? A Focus RS?

[Kawasicki]

WCZ said:

evo's have never set great ring times either but on the road they are one of if not the fastest cars around

How does that work then?

[Robert-lhcbq]

Note the difference between the sport auto lap times and the manufacturer lap times for various cara.

Against its rivals, 8:06 vs...

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/rundenzeiten/su...

A45 AMG with 8:10, face lift with 8.04.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/rundenzeiten/su...

Civic type R and golf R both did 8:15

So all in all, that RS time is pretty rapid.

They also dyno'd the RS after and it was down on power too running just 326PS. See article below;

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/supertest/ford-...

Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Thursday 20th July 12:23

Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Thursday 20th July 12:32

[RacerMike]

Sorry, not sorry for the self promotion here, but I went there in April in my car with the Mountune FPM375 upgrade. Had it not been for a pesky couple of slow BMWs, this lap *should* have been a touch quicker than Gebhardts lap. At this point, I'd done around 5-6 laps already (1 other proper hot lap attempt which got more heavily ruined by traffic) so the tyres (Cup2s) weren't at their best, so, with a brand new set of tyres, a completely clear track and ideal temperature, I'm pretty confident it would do just under 8mins.

I may yet go back again with a new set of tyres, but ultimately, it ends up being a £2k weekend.....which is a lot of money for a few laps of a German circuit...

8min12sec Full Lap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGHtLtqdEFo

Edited by RacerMike on Thursday 20th July 14:07

[Debaser]

A car that works well at the Ring will work well on a typical B road.

Didn't Nissan have to soften the GT-R to improve its lap time?

[scherzkeks]

Alex said:

Kawasicki said:

Repeat after me....

The 'Ring is bumpy
The 'Ring is bumpy
The 'Ring is bumpy
...

Compared to a regular race track it is, but not when compared to a B-road (especially in the UK!). The 'Ring is pretty smooth.

So are most roads in Germany. The Ring is a perfect test facility for pushing road cars to their limits.

The funny part is that in the SA article, the author claims the hard damper setting is too hard for the Ring and the soft too plush. Ford also said they didn't really focus on Ring testing.

Edited by scherzkeks on Thursday 20th July 12:42

[Robert-lhcbq]

Here's mine at Curborough. Bloody fun car. Turns in like a go kart. Wants to oversteer everywhere. Grips to 1.3g.

https://youtu.be/K8EglXuFK1U

https://youtu.be/rfgY7d_c4rU

Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Thursday 20th July 12:38

[havoc]

scherzkeks said:

Alex said:

Kawasicki said:

Repeat after me....

The 'Ring is bumpy
The 'Ring is bumpy
The 'Ring is bumpy
...

Compared to a regular race track it is, but not when compared to a B-road (especially in the UK!). The 'Ring is pretty smooth.

So are most roads in Germany. The Ring is a perfect test facility for pushing road cars to their limits.

The funny part is that in the SA article, the author claims the hard damper setting is too hard for the Ring and the soft too plush. Ford also said they didn't really focus on Ring testing.

Typical speeds at the 'ring, even for a hot-hatch, are c.100mph or so.

So a car 'set-up' at the 'ring will be set-up to deal well with 3-figure speeds and fast corners, all on reasonably unbroken tarmac. All of this leads to stiffer suspension, both in compression and rebound, to give better car-control (and less pitch/roll), and therefore get a better lap-time.

Now compare to how most buyers will use their cars - 50-80mph is a typical 'window' of fun speeds in the UK, often on twisty minor-A and B-roads. Rather different, eh? And requiring a different suspension approach - something with progressive springs and (much) softer rebound would probably suit a UK back-road blast perfectly.

And it's not just the UK back-roads that are a mess - go to (most of) Belgium, go to parts of France, parts of Italy...


...so we're facing a situation (have been for ~10 years) where manufacturers are pursuing a performance window that most customers will never/rarely encounter, to the detriment of the performance window where the cars will spend far more of their time...

[Tuvra]

Kawasicki said:

WCZ said:

evo's have never set great ring times either but on the road they are one of if not the fastest cars around

How does that work then?

Lack of top end grunt and gear ratios possibly? Factory standard Evo 6/7's top out at between 140-150mph, these latest "hyper hatches" are 165mph+.