Friday 14th June 2013

996 GT3 RS: Market Watch

Hardcore track special heralded return of legendary RS badge to 911 range

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Back in 2003, the biggest rival facing the 996 RS was the Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale. More powerful, more exotic and more expensive the Ferrari may have been, but the Porsche was more than a match for it on track.

Nods to 2.7 RS extended to the graphics package

A decade ago, there was a £40,000 price gap between the two cars, with the Ferrari costing £130,000. The difference is largely mirrored in used values too.

The common consensus on the 996 RS is that its simply too hardcore to consider as an everyday prospect. We're not talking Ariel Atom levels of sparseness, but the ride is hard, the rear seats are gone and isn't a hub of connectivity. As a track car, however, the RS represents great value as, unlike later road-biased 997s, it requires fewer modifications to really shine on a circuit.

As Jonas at JZM Porsche told us, the 996 RS is "a phenomenal car", and surely one that will be remembered as a great Porsche.

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Buy if: You want uncompromising, unadultered track thrills in a Porsche that also happens to be road legal.
Don't buy if: You need a performance car for 365 days of the year. Our 911 Turbo guide should see to that...
We found:2004 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 28,000 miles, main dealer and specialist service history, two owners, recent wheel refurb - £58,500

Price Guide -
Poor: £50,000
Good: £60,000
A1: £70,000

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Introduction
996 GT3 (1999-2000)
996 GT3 (2003-2005)
996 GT3 RS (2003-2005)
997 GT3 (2006-2008)
997 GT3 RS (2006-2008)
997 GT3 (2009-2012)
997 GT3 RS (2009-2011)
997 GT3 RS 4.0 (2011)

[Murcielago_Boy]

This car was more or less my daily driver for 2 years. I lived in central London and commuted out.
I had a Parr Stage 1 fast-road geo and proper sports exhaust + sport cats, and squealing RS29 pads with Alcons, so not exactly comfy.
And I drove its wheels off all the time and hooned it wherever was safe - esp on the w/e - some classic drives to be had ON THE ROAD.
Yes, it followed cambers at XXXmph on the motorway like a bd but that was it. So this chat about being too hard for road use is DOG5H1T. It's more roadworthy than the Mk2 996GT3 which I owned before it. And no, I'm not a psycho.

One of the most exhilarating, rare, involving, dangerous, thrilling, visceral, brutal FABULOUS cars ever at any price. No electronics, not TC, no nothing. BRILLIANT. Wonderful chassis, and TOTAL driver immesion. Laid waste to my pal's 360CS on a very memorable hoon too. I sold mine for around £60k in 2007. Worth the same-ish now I reckon.

REF market: Now cannot find an unmolested original. And NO - "servicing it 3 times a year/changing fluids after each trackday" doesn't offset the crap people do to them on track - overrevs, spins, hammering kerbs, mis-shifts, and blah blah blah. Sorry, I don't buy those arguments. Give me an untracked car everytime and I'd pay more for it. (flamesuit on).

Why did I sell it and buy a dogst Ferrari 430 instead?
Because I thought I might crash big and die, OR I'd lose my licence, but mostly because I'm a fking idiot.... fk sake. Regret it so much.

BUY ONE.

[slodge]

Stop pussy footing around and tell us how you really feel!

Not driven a 6GT3 RS, but took my track focused (full cage, buckets, Alcons, Pagids, etc etc) 6.2 GT3 on circuit today and it was mega fun on the way there, on the track and on the way back.

Epic machines and would love an RS at some point.

Cheers

Slodge

[Mermaid]

slodge said:

Epic machines and would love an RS at some point.

If I got a £ for each time I have read that, I could easily afford to buy a low mileage 996RS. Is this car people think they should like due it its scarcity? Or are most drivers simply not able to get the best of this pure beast?

[Murcielago_Boy]

Mermaid said:

If I got a £ for each time I have read that, I could easily afford to buy a low mileage 996RS. Is this car people think they should like due it its scarcity? Or are most drivers simply not able to get the best of this pure beast?

NOOO.
Get one. Get it geo-ed properly - Stage 1 by Parr is great. Learn to respect it and slowly, carefully, deliberately, come to terms with it and you will find NOTHING this side of Carrera GT which is more rewarding. Back in 2005 odd, the pace it generated was bloody extreme too!!

It's brilliant because it's brilliant. NOT because it's rare (which is just the icing n the cake).

ETA: Most people think it's too hard for the road. It's bloody hard but not too much. And also, it's NOT a beast, its brilliant traction and perfect chassis looked after me a lot - and I'm a 5hit driver!

Edited by Murcielago_Boy on Friday 14th June 17:18

Edited by Murcielago_Boy on Friday 14th June 17:18

[slodge]

Mermaid said:

Is this car people think they should like due it its scarcity? Or are most drivers simply not able to get the best of this pure beast?

Perhaps there is some truth in that, scarcity does breed desirability. I think most Porsche freaks would like a RS, even if when they actually get one they may realise it's not for them! From my perspective I wanted something I could properly enjoy on track that was a lower price point than an RS. Bought a very cheap, straight GT3 comfort and have dropped a bit of cash making it track focused. From the RS owners and instructors I have spoken to, I understand the standard GT3 to be very similar to a RS and I know quite a few drivers who are handy in a GT3...

Cheers

Slodge

[agtlaw]

Five cars for sale today:

£69,950 at Slades (Bucks). 5,695 miles.
£POA (£70k?) at Malton. 22,294 miles.
£58,500 PH private seller. 28,900 miles.
£53,735 PH private seller. 13,300 miles. Cat D.
£POA PH private seller. 23,000 miles. Cat D.

[jackal]

Slades car potentially good value ?

[GT Two]

private seller wants 50s for a catD?

[isaldiri]

Murcielago_Boy said:

One of the most exhilarating, rare, involving, dangerous, thrilling, visceral, brutal FABULOUS cars ever at any price. No electronics, not TC, no nothing. BRILLIANT. Wonderful chassis, and TOTAL driver immesion. Laid waste to my pal's 360CS on a very memorable hoon too. I sold mine for around £60k in 2007. Worth the same-ish now I reckon.

REF market: Now cannot find an unmolested original. And NO - "servicing it 3 times a year/changing fluids after each trackday" doesn't offset the crap people do to them on track - overrevs, spins, hammering kerbs, mis-shifts, and blah blah blah. Sorry, I don't buy those arguments. Give me an untracked car everytime and I'd pay more for it. (flamesuit on).

I am always a bit sorry to see the emphasis placed on 'no prior track use' for buyers. IMO it is a huge shame for cars like the GT3 RS not to be tracked and used as intended as that is really the only time one can properly appreciate what those cars that are capable of. If as a buyer I see a car that has been properly cared for and looking in mint condition when the owner has told me the car has done a few trackdays, I would probably be happier knowing that the owner has likely been an enthusiast and to have kept the car in top condition would have meant he would have replaced everything that wears out and generally kept the car in good nick. So long as the car passes a rev range check and needs no further work post a pre purchase inspection I would have no hesitation of getting one...

[Steve Rance]

I see that the Dick Lovett car is already sold.

[kayc]

agtlaw said:

Five cars for sale today:

£69,950 at Slades (Bucks). 5,695 miles.
£POA (£70k?) at Malton. 22,294 miles.
£58,500 PH private seller. 28,900 miles.
£53,735 PH private seller. 13,300 miles. Cat D.
£POA PH private seller. 23,000 miles. Cat D.

The one at Slades isn't £69950..unless they have put the price up since you posted!

[billy964]

goose

tried to PM you, not working

[agtlaw]

kayc said:

The one at Slades isn't £69950..unless they have put the price up since you posted!

It's today in the PH classifieds at £69,950 but the same car is on their website at £84,950!

[Murcielago_Boy]

isaldiri said:

I am always a bit sorry to see the emphasis placed on 'no prior track use' for buyers. IMO it is a huge shame for cars like the GT3 RS not to be tracked and used as intended as that is really the only time one can properly appreciate what those cars that are capable of. If as a buyer I see a car that has been properly cared for and looking in mint condition when the owner has told me the car has done a few trackdays, I would probably be happier knowing that the owner has likely been an enthusiast and to have kept the car in top condition would have meant he would have replaced everything that wears out and generally kept the car in good nick. So long as the car passes a rev range check and needs no further work post a pre purchase inspection I would have no hesitation of getting one...

I absolutely agree that cars like the GT3RS SHOULD be tracked. That's their raison d'etre.
I would do trackdays myself. But I just don't want to buy a car that's done 1000 laps of the Ring before I purchase it.

An enthusiastic owner may be well-intentioned etc and spend thousands doing "fluid changes" and replacing "consumables" but services done even after **every** trackday simply do NOT undo the wear, the stress and the sheer damage done to the entire car and it's components on the racetrack.
I mean a hamfisted over-revving, spinner, clattering into gravel traps, and getting airborne off kerbs is NOT going to have the car sorted by sending it to Reading "for the boys to give it an inspection and change the fluids" - you and they don't even KNOW what damage has been done to stressed components (hairline stress fractures and blah blah) an no doubt, these would manifest itself (sods law being what it is), within the first mile that **I** buy the damn car and the wheels fall off and the engine blows up!

Nope. People can disagree, that's fine, (they're talking up what they own/have bought) but what I've said is a fact. Unless you've got the car being stripped down and rebuilt top to to bottom every time which never happens (unless you own a raceteam, in which case buy a Cup Car) then I'd prefer to buy untracked cars.

And I'd pay more to own it too. (Only so I can go and F88k it up for someone else).

[Mermaid]

More diverse views on the 6RS than any of the others? Not sure that makes for great investment potential.

[LaSource]

Murcielago_Boy said:

isaldiri said:

I am always a bit sorry to see the emphasis placed on 'no prior track use' for buyers. IMO it is a huge shame for cars like the GT3 RS not to be tracked and used as intended as that is really the only time one can properly appreciate what those cars that are capable of. If as a buyer I see a car that has been properly cared for and looking in mint condition when the owner has told me the car has done a few trackdays, I would probably be happier knowing that the owner has likely been an enthusiast and to have kept the car in top condition would have meant he would have replaced everything that wears out and generally kept the car in good nick. So long as the car passes a rev range check and needs no further work post a pre purchase inspection I would have no hesitation of getting one...

I absolutely agree that cars like the GT3RS SHOULD be tracked. That's their raison d'etre.
I would do trackdays myself. But I just don't want to buy a car that's done 1000 laps of the Ring before I purchase it.

An enthusiastic owner may be well-intentioned etc and spend thousands doing "fluid changes" and replacing "consumables" but services done even after **every** trackday simply do NOT undo the wear, the stress and the sheer damage done to the entire car and it's components on the racetrack.
I mean a hamfisted over-revving, spinner, clattering into gravel traps, and getting airborne off kerbs is NOT going to have the car sorted by sending it to Reading "for the boys to give it an inspection and change the fluids" - you and they don't even KNOW what damage has been done to stressed components (hairline stress fractures and blah blah) an no doubt, these would manifest itself (sods law being what it is), within the first mile that **I** buy the damn car and the wheels fall off and the engine blows up!

Nope. People can disagree, that's fine, (they're talking up what they own/have bought) but what I've said is a fact. Unless you've got the car being stripped down and rebuilt top to to bottom every time which never happens (unless you own a raceteam, in which case buy a Cup Car) then I'd prefer to buy untracked cars.

And I'd pay more to own it too. (Only so I can go and F88k it up for someone else).

I would agree with the above, but I have yet to see a 6RS being regularly driven through gravel traps, backwards over the tarmac, jumping off curbs and jumps, etc....for that matter, I think track biased brand cars (CSL, Stradale, 993RS, 964RS, Scud, etc) usually owned by someone 'sensible' (because they are not cheap for most people) do not get such abusive use. They are too expensive for that - perhaps a caterham or something like that may be.

...if most were being abused like that then most of the known service outlets (JZM, Parr, 9E, Fearnsport, Sports&Classic, etc) would be telling us how they are frequently rebuilding engines/gearboxes on 6RSs which have been thrashed - or owners would be asking, where do I go for a rebuild? You can also add 6GT3s mk1 & mk2, 7GT3s gen 1 & gen 2, 7GT3 RS Gen 1 and Gen 2 to the same sample pool given the same basic mechanicals and potential usage. There are a few 6mk1s which have done a fair few miles, as well as 6mk2s (same age as 6RSs)....but still little evidence of rebuilds all over the place.

..so I would agree with you in principle that it is comforting to buy a car that has never been tracked, however evidence does not backup a mechanical ticking time bomb.

Of course, these cars do require greater levels of due diligence when purchasing to uncover any major accidents, etc...but I am thinking about the mechanicals here

All IMHO...(not trying to talk it up, but just reflect why I have been comfortable buying these cars)

[jackal]

mail me the details please Goose

[agtlaw]

agtlaw said:

kayc said:

The one at Slades isn't £69950..unless they have put the price up since you posted!

It's today in the PH classifieds at £69,950 but the same car is on their website at £84,950!

update to PH classifieds ad - £84,950.

[Alpinestars]

Looked "good value" at £70k.

[LaSource]

Alpinestars said:

Looked "good value" at £70k.

I agree - thats what I thought too.
For a while I almost considered chopping my one in for it ;-)