RE: Ferrari 488 Pista vs. Porsche 911 GT2 RS

RE: Ferrari 488 Pista vs. Porsche 911 GT2 RS

Sunday 13th October 2019

Ferrari 488 Pista vs. Porsche 911 GT2 RS

Take one 700hp Porsche and one 720hp Ferrari, add one wet Wales and stand well back...



Though it's been said before, it's worth repeating: we live in a purple patch for supercars. Oh sure, there are grievances about availability, cars being flipped for profit, the demise of the manual gearbox and the inexorable rise of the turbo, but never before have there been so many cars offering such prodigious talent - and yet such relative approachability.

Those sufficiently monied could drive a McLaren Senna to any old track day, listen to podcasts and pick up a coffee, then blitz racing cars on the circuit. The Aventador SV J has one of the world's greatest V12s, with 100hp more than a Lambo flagship of just a decade ago, yet is a pussycat compared to any Diablo. Bugatti makes a car that'll do 300mph; Koenigsegg says it has a car that will accelerate even faster. For those with the cash, they've never had it so good.

Furthermore, anyone taking issue with any perceived lack of involvement, engagement or excitement should try a 488 Pista or GT2 RS, on the M4, at night. In rain that would call off a Rugby World Cup game. The modern supercar feels plenty senior enough then, thanks very much, the Porsche's front end worryingly light at points, truck grooves playing havoc with the aggressive camber of both, the Ferrari spinning its wheels in fifth gear...


Why GT2 RS against Pista? Because we could, largely, and because there's nothing better to properly contextualise a great car than a great rival. They're also both the first of their kind to breach 700hp, which remains a bonkers number even in 2019, they've both confounded expectations for this type of car and they've both proven utterly exhilarating in isolation - why wouldn't you drive them together? As such, there won't be a winner; the GT2 RS and Pista are both five-star cato a previously unknown level. There will be a conclusion, a personal preference, but be in no doubt: both the Porsche and Ferrari are phenomenally, exceptionally good. Finally, and perhaps most relevantly for this discussion, the classifieds show that you won't get in a GT2 RS for less than £300k, or a Pista for £350k; buyers could likely have both of these, not either.

Judgement day (and a bit) begins in the Pista, because the Porsche has to be collected later on. There have been suggestions that the 488 Italian-for-Track isn't far enough removed from a GTB to warrant the premium but, harnessed into a car shorn of both radio and carpet, it feels more than focussed enough. The lack of any entertainment proffers chance to concentrate on other elements, too; how dated the 488 interior looked by the end of its life, how much noise emanates from apparently everywhere, how the seating position isn't quite as perfect as you remembered.

Even at moderate speeds and commitment levels, however, the Pista's genius is blatant to the point of being indisputable. Another 50hp on top of 670hp doesn't sound like much, but don't forget how it's achieved: the crank is lighter, the rods are now titanium, the turbos are from the Challenge car - this is not just an ECU and boost job. Therefore even beyond a GTB engine that won back-to-back International Engine of the Year titles, the Pista's 3.9 V8 is insatiably urgent, responding to every blip of the throttle like a naturally aspirated car - perhaps better - and yet backing it up with titanic turbocharged torque. Its automatic is better calibrated than many a luxury saloon and the low speed ride - a key supercar metric, surely - is sumptuous.


With Porsche picked up, M4 and the borders just about navigated - both cars have very good wipers, it turns out, as well as excellent headlights - and a night's rest, the next day dawns a little less apocalyptically wet. It's raining vertically now, rather than horizontally - thank goodness.

Even in these conditions though, the Pista is just sublime; arguably its performance in grizzly conditions is all the more impressive than its dry weather form, because of how much can be exploited and enjoyed when everything suggests it shouldn't be possible. The fabled Bumpy Road mode delivers both peerless comfort and unerring, delicate control, the car gliding across the surface in a way the Porsche can't, yet keeping you perfectly in touch with the road's changes. Even if you forget to press the damper button, Race is never crashy or intolerable. The ability to put power down is borderline unbelievable for a car of such performance, yet any traction transgression is communicated with such clarity that such an event is much less intimidating than would be imagined.

And that's the Ferrari's genius: it's a car of unparalleled eagerness, intensity and agility, one that's borderline feral at points, but also one that matches it with a sufficient sliver of usability and friendliness to ensure that any driver can get exactly what they want from it. That oft-discussed steering is freakishly fast, but the rest of the car is so in tune with and reactive seems almost to make your inputs swifter and more decisive, daft though that sounds, ably assisted by driver aids that remain unsurpassed in their subtlety and effectiveness. To drive a Pista quickly, or even as quickly as is reasonable on the public road, is an experience like no other.

 

The Porsche is right there with it, though, for tangible ability and subjective exhilaration. There are elements that improve upon the Ferrari, too: traction is even better, which is jolly useful, despite comparable power, torque and tyres. There's nothing to choose between gearboxes, either, the Porsche PDK perhaps even more decisive at points than the F1-DCT; the former feels more responsive to downshift requests, the shift speed of the latter may be a little quicker - both are exemplary. And both are better for their automatics, too; a manual would surely feel too laboured and sluggish in cars of such laser guided precision.

Where the Porsche succeeds is in feeling more immediately amenable and natural than the Ferrari, which is initially as welcoming to drive fast as juggling grenades. The Porsche does this with more relaxed, more communicative steering, less immediate turn in despite the four-wheel steer, and longer ratios, making it come across as just that bit less frantic to start with - handy when the rain returns.

The GT2's brilliance - and it really is brilliance, even by the standards of this test - is similar to that of so many Porsche Motorsport 911s; by paring back where needed, tinkering, stiffening and rose jointing where required, the driver is exposed to the sort of rear-engined Porscheness that Carreras have long since abandoned. But because it's so expertly, thoroughly, meticulously done, the fear factor is largely eradicated. The 911's quirks and idiosyncrasies can be explored and enjoyed, without feeling like they - or 700hp - will get the better of you.


The fear's not entirely gone, however; turn in where you did first time for the Ferrari and the Porsche just won't, pushing for a frightening split second before committing to the bend. Better to hold those impeccable brakes a little longer, lock the front end to an apex with great accuracy and make the most of the traction on the way out, which feels absolutely superb.

That engine is a fine accompaniment to the chassis, too. Perhaps it lacks the final per cent of response compared to that supernatural Ferrari, a tad less exotic overall, but once the flat-six has paused for breath momentarily it punches just as hard - if 700hp and 553 lb ft can ever feel conservative, it's here. Moreover, if the Ferrari's is the engine of greater potency, making more power and revving higher, it's the GT2's that might be more memorable, chuffing along with a 935-esque soundtrack (good news for the new one) and giving it a discernible, likeable character over the screaming 4.0-litre cars.

That the GT2 can do regular, do-it-all 911 almost as well as any other - road noise notwithstanding - makes its achievement all the more staggering. It demands, challenges and rewards like 700hp and rear-wheel drive always will, with a uniquely 911 tinge to that character, while also being civil enough to spend hours behind the wheel of. One morning in Wales isn't enough, naturally; such are the 911's reserves of talent, the layers of dynamic intrigue there to unravel, that it would keep a driver willing to use it captivated for months - years, hopefully.


Succinctly, the GT2 RS's combination of talent is such that it makes a Turbo S feel a little aloof, a GT3 inert and a GT3 RS slow - it really is sensational. GT2s may once have had a reputation for being spitefully handling cars, or mere straight-line blunderbusses, but no longer. By combining the very best elements of the very best 911s - raw but not unmanageable, demanding but not unruly, intense but not intimidating - then shoving it along with all this power, the RS sets a new bar for the turbocharged 911. Believe the hype.

Amazingly, though, it's the Ferrari that leaves the more lasting impression, which really is saying something. The Ferrari takes longer to understand, requires more of its driver and occasionally frustrates in a way the Porsche doesn't, but - you guessed it - will deliver moments of ecstasy the 911 can't quite match. It's that bit lighter, that bit faster, that bit more utterly absorbing to try and get the very best from; fractionally so, yes, but a noticeable amount nonetheless. The Pista brings together a mid-engined chassis of inexhaustible poise, a turbocharged V8 of unmatched ferocity and Ferrari's peerless mastery of dynamic tech; the end result is, if anything, more spectacular than that sounds.

There's a train of thought, one that would be very easy to subscribe to after this experience, that says the GT2 RS is the best 911 of recent times, combining GT3 RS focus with scandalous performance; the Pista, by comparison, might just be one of the best mid-engined supercars of recent times. As such, therefore, it's our choice here, by a margin as slim as its carbon seatbacks. Those with access to one, or indeed both, of these two for any amount of time should cherish every second - fast cars really don't get much better.


SPECIFICATION - PORSCHE 911 GT2 RS
Engine:
3,800cc twin-turbocharged flat-six
Transmission: 7-speed PDK, rear-wheel drive
Power (hp): 700@7,000rpm
Torque (lb ft): 553@2,500-4,500rpm
0-62mph: 2.8secs
Top speed: 211mph
Weight: 1,470kg (DIN)
MPG: 24
CO2: 269g/km
Price: £207,506 (as standard; price as tested £235,557, comprised of Miami Blue paint for £2,525, Leather interior in black for £2,147, Reversing camera for £464, Headlight cleaning system covers painted for £143, Weissach Package (carbon roof, carbon anti-roll bars, magnesium wheels, titanium cage instead of steel, carbon shift paddles and steering wheel trim) for £21,042, Chrono Package and preparation for lap trigger for £336, Wheels painted silver for £168, Cruise control for £228, Auto dimming mirrors with integrated rain sensor for £387, Instrument dials in white for £417 and Silver Grey seat belts for £194).

Search 991 GT2s for sale here.

SPECIFICATION - FERRARI 488 PISTA
Engine:
3,902cc, twin-turbocharged V8
Transmission: 7-speed dual-clutch automatic, rear-wheel drive
Power (hp): 720@8,000rpm
Torque (lb ft): 568@3,000rpm (in 7th gear)
0-62mph: 2.9sec
Top speed: 211mph
Weight: 1,385kg (Ferrari kerbweight)
MPG: 23.9
CO2: 263g/km
Price: £252,765 (as standard; price as tested £294,281, comprised of 4-point harnesses for £2,112, Black brake calipers for £864, Front air vents in carbon fibre for £1,440, Carbon fibre underdoor cover for £5,664, Carbon fibre floor plates for £4,512, Carbon fibre instrument cluster for £2,880, Matt painted inner carbon fibre for £2,400, Carbon fibre side mirrors for £3,500, Alcantara dashboard for £1,056, Colour upon request for Alcantara lower dash for £960, Embroidered prancing horse on headrests for £720, Floor mats with embroidered logo for £768, Carbon fibre rear moulding for £2,880, Two-tone stripe for £8,640, Sport seat lifter for £1,440, Colour upon request for standard stitching for £336 and Colour upon request for Alcantara upper zone for £1,344).

Search 488 Pistas for sale here.


























Photography | Dafydd Wood

Author
Discussion

wab172uk

Original Poster:

2,005 posts

227 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
If you could afford the Ferrari, you'd buy that wouldn't you?

I love Porsches, but I don't think I'd want an RS version. The Pista certainly looks more road car than the GT2.

Both cars are far to quick for the road, to make them any fun. Great track cars, and I suppose if you can afford either, you can afford to buy one as a track toy.

I would honestly prefer a GT3 or GT3 Touring, with the lovely manual gearbox. Not as fast. Who cares? Burt far more enjoyable to drive

gigglebug

2,611 posts

122 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
I would love to have either, possibly the Pista slightly more.

I like it how the author puts an exclamation mark after the price of the white dials on the Porsche but is seemingly ok with the £700 odd for a bit of embroidery and floor mats in the Ferrari!

I'd be interested to know how well a Manthey GT2 MR copes on road, it certainly appears to be on another level for track use and I am sure that the benefits experienced from the dampers could translate to a better ability elsewhere too;

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&amp...

gigglebug

2,611 posts

122 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
wab172uk said:
If you could afford the Ferrari, you'd buy that wouldn't you?

I love Porsches, but I don't think I'd want an RS version. The Pista certainly looks more road car than the GT2.

Both cars are far to quick for the road, to make them any fun. Great track cars, and I suppose if you can afford either, you can afford to buy one as a track toy.

I would honestly prefer a GT3 or GT3 Touring, with the lovely manual gearbox. Not as fast. Who cares? Burt far more enjoyable to drive
There was a GT2 for sale with an interesting spec recently, must have sold though as I can't find it now. It had most of the Weissach pack but minus the cage so that the rear bench could be used for carrying and it had 18 way sports seats as oppose to the fixed back buckets. It was an ultimate performance grand tourer spec car.

Maldini35

2,913 posts

188 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
wab172uk said:
If you could afford the Ferrari, you'd buy that wouldn't you?

I love Porsches, but I don't think I'd want an RS version. The Pista certainly looks more road car than the GT2.

Both cars are far to quick for the road, to make them any fun. Great track cars, and I suppose if you can afford either, you can afford to buy one as a track toy.

I would honestly prefer a GT3 or GT3 Touring, with the lovely manual gearbox. Not as fast. Who cares? Burt far more enjoyable to drive
Totally agree with all of this.

Cheib

23,258 posts

175 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
Maldini35 said:
wab172uk said:
If you could afford the Ferrari, you'd buy that wouldn't you?

I love Porsches, but I don't think I'd want an RS version. The Pista certainly looks more road car than the GT2.

Both cars are far to quick for the road, to make them any fun. Great track cars, and I suppose if you can afford either, you can afford to buy one as a track toy.

I would honestly prefer a GT3 or GT3 Touring, with the lovely manual gearbox. Not as fast. Who cares? Burt far more enjoyable to drive
Totally agree with all of this.
I am lucky enough to own a GT3 with the manual box and have no interest in an RS! I am not a good enough driver and don’t have the balls to push my GT3 to the edge of its performance envelope so an RS would be wasted on my anyway. Having tuition in the hope that I can get there with the GT3 though...

anonymous-user

54 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
Sorry, but i'd rather drive a Caterham on a track, and an 106 rallye down that welsh road!

(Both would be far more fun than these impossible-to-use cars!)

wab172uk

Original Poster:

2,005 posts

227 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
Sorry, but i'd rather drive a Caterham on a track, and an 106 rallye down that welsh road!

(Both would be far more fun than these impossible-to-use cars!)
But like most things in life, the more money you have, the more expensive your toys get. Can't see many multi-millionaires opting for a Caterham & 106 Rallye over a GT2 or a Pista

jp-sr71

123 posts

185 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
What do they make with a remap?

Kubevoid

192 posts

56 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
I'll take a vastly discounted RS after the banks and stock market completely collapse. Give it a year. Maybe less.

Gandahar

9,600 posts

128 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
Dear Santa,

Had a hard time this year with the PH lot commentating on all our stuff, they've given us a right old earful, as always. Can you make Christmas come early?
Regards Matt

Dear Matt,

Ho ho ho.

You've been a good road tester this year, apart from that one piece where they blamed it on the YTS person putting it onto the IBM personal computer, so here you go ...
Santa.
PS The reindeer sleigh has gone EV. All the presents shoot off the back when I put my foot down xmas. To compensate at least we will be eating venison for Christmas day meal. What's not to like?

MDL111

6,951 posts

177 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
Sorry, but i'd rather drive a Caterham on a track, and an 106 rallye down that welsh road!

(Both would be far more fun than these impossible-to-use cars!)
Personally disagree on the track car (would be quite happy with one of these), but understand your choice for a country road - fast cars just too depressing on those nowadays (if you actually stick - broadly - to the speed limit) due to acceleration, no manual and just the level of grip they offer

nickfrog

21,165 posts

217 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
Sorry, but i'd rather drive a Caterham on a track, and an 106 rallye down that welsh road!

(Both would be far more fun than these impossible-to-use cars!)
I occasionally see them on track days, mainly on the continent and their owners seem to have fun without seemingly finding them impossible to drive. Perhaps they like a car they can drive to the track and while they can do that in a Caterham, they probably don't want to and I don't blame them.

Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 12th October 16:14

anonymous-user

54 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
nickfrog said:
Max_Torque said:
Sorry, but i'd rather drive a Caterham on a track, and an 106 rallye down that welsh road!

(Both would be far more fun than these impossible-to-use cars!)
I occasionally see them on track days, mainly on the continent and their owners seem to have fun without seemingly finding them impossible to drive. Perhaps they like a car they can drive to the track and while they can do that in a Caterham, they probably don't want to and I don't blame them.

Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 12th October 16:14
I can't say i've ever had a car with tyres even remotely close to legality after any visit to a track, and if you're not going to drive at the limit of grip, whats the point of going to a track? Can you get a tow bar on a GT2?? ;-) (for the trailer to carry the spare tyres)

Veeayt

3,139 posts

205 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
Article said:
Though it's been said before, it's worth repeating: we live in a purple patch for supercars. Oh sure, there are grievances about availability, cars being flipped for profit, the demise of the manual gearbox and the inexorable rise of the turbo, but never before have there been so many cars offering such prodigious talent - and yet such relative approachability.
If you read through this carefully, this does not make sense however one approaches

mooseracer

1,894 posts

170 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
wab172uk said:
I

Both cars are far to quick for the road, to make them any fun.
I know what you mean but sounds like PH had fun with them on the road and I'm sure I would.

big_rob_sydney

3,404 posts

194 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
I guess this discussion could also go the way of "what would you spend your real world £350k on", and there would be a lot of choice on offer.

That doesnt change the question though of which you'd have.

For those lucky enough to have the choice, I imagine it would be... both. And good luck to them. But if it's one of the other, it's the Ferrari, every day of the week. Putting aside the fact I'm Italian, I just love the history of the brand in F1. The relentless progress of it's entry level V8's punching so hard compared to supercars of not-so-long ago. If I could have only one sports car, I imagine it would be one of these. Love it.

  • This is in context of these two cars only though. I wouldnt buy one, because for £350k, there are a tonne of choices I'd rather make.

StuH

2,557 posts

273 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
mooseracer said:
I know what you mean but sounds like PH had fun with them on the road and I'm sure I would.
They’re just fun - full stop. This hackneyed notion of being ‘too fast for the road’ is such a load of garbage. An average fast diesel repmobile can do twice the legal limit - so what?These cars offer a sense of occasion, level of driver feedback and sense of joy to drive that they are always nothing less than sensational.


nickfrog

21,165 posts

217 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
I can't say i've ever had a car with tyres even remotely close to legality after any visit to a track, and if you're not going to drive at the limit of grip, whats the point of going to a track? Can you get a tow bar on a GT2?? ;-) (for the trailer to carry the spare tyres)
You probably need to use semi slicks with a compound that will not over heat after 2 hot laps on the limit of grip and traction. Something like a AD08r. Road compound and carcass don't work well on the track.
Thousands of billies do track days and safely get home on the same tyre. I have been doing it for 25 years without issues.
I normally do 3 or 4 track days and 5k road miles on either the Yokis or NS2Rs in 180 compound.But it requires a front to back swap mid way.

simonbamg

767 posts

123 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
Sorry, but i'd rather drive a Caterham on a track, and an 106 rallye down that welsh road!

(Both would be far more fun than these impossible-to-use cars!)
Dream a little don’t always lower these threads to the lowest level banging on about practically

MyV10goesWhaaa

301 posts

93 months

Saturday 12th October 2019
quotequote all
StuH said:
mooseracer said:
I know what you mean but sounds like PH had fun with them on the road and I'm sure I would.
They’re just fun - full stop. This hackneyed notion of being ‘too fast for the road’ is such a load of garbage. An average fast diesel repmobile can do twice the legal limit - so what?These cars offer a sense of occasion, level of driver feedback and sense of joy to drive that they are always nothing less than sensational.
clapyes